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  • Jon Jordan
    replied
    Originally posted by Konzev View Post
    Hi Jordan
    Nice to hear from my faithful friend in spirit again.
    There is a version with English Subtitles out there, and You will find it here:
    http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product.asp?sku=45070
    Nevertheless, the movie makes a rather fair attempt to capture the Mystery
    and Intrigue of the Book. One of the most enchanting books I have ever read.
    I hope the movie will install the appetide to read the book.
    Regards,
    Ernst
    I am looking forward do it -I've only recently begun getting back into fiction after reading only history/biography for too long. Thanks for the recommendation on this one!

    Best,
    Jon

    Leave a comment:


  • Konzev
    replied
    Master i Marguerita

    Originally posted by Jon Jordan View Post
    My Russian is probably not good enough to keep up well - and trying to keep up would take a lot of the enjoyment out of the movie because it is a lot of work. But I did a search and managed to find an English-subtitled version that I've put on my Netflix queue. (Amazon.com has a copy as well - it's a 2006 import of the 2005 Russian version.) I really like the story so I'm looking forward to checking it out -- thanks for the recommendation!

    -Jon
    Hi Jordan
    Nice to hear from my faithful friend in spirit again.
    There is a version with English Subtitles out there, and You will find it here:
    http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product.asp?sku=45070
    Nevertheless, the movie makes a rather fair attempt to capture the Mystery
    and Intrigue of the Book. One of the most enchanting books I have ever read.
    I hope the movie will install the appetide to read the book.
    Regards,
    Ernst

    Leave a comment:


  • Jon Jordan
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrey View Post
    It is excellent!!! Unfortunately, it is in Russian only (as I know)/
    My Russian is probably not good enough to keep up well - and trying to keep up would take a lot of the enjoyment out of the movie because it is a lot of work. But I did a search and managed to find an English-subtitled version that I've put on my Netflix queue. (Amazon.com has a copy as well - it's a 2006 import of the 2005 Russian version.) I really like the story so I'm looking forward to checking it out -- thanks for the recommendation!

    -Jon

    Leave a comment:


  • Jon Jordan
    replied
    Originally posted by Konzev View Post
    You are still believing in a delusion. This systems, if working requires educated shareholders. I doubt we deal with well informed shareholders, who dig their information from a pool of sources that want to sell consumption goods. Not all Harvard, Yale, or whatever place of quality education, neccessarily produces enough participants, will build the majority of influence
    in the chair rooms to sway the majority remainder towards the "right" conclusions. The educucation system in the US is one of the worst in the democratic nations. You even have a senator, that could not answer to a reporters question, regarding the Cuban Missile Crisis. What does that tell you ? The news your network broadcasts, are cherrypicked news. They are broadcasting news, that doe not really belong to the National News, like minor scandals and crime stories. They broadcast those news, because the advertising Cooperations unilateral patronise the puplic, they suggest that uneducated consumers do not understand the complexities of foreign news.
    They are simply not interested in an educated public, that for heaven's sake could criticise their products. So they feed them simple stories with a "Spin".
    Fact is , the networks have continually cut down on foreign correspondents,
    for more than 26 years, excactly since the citizen voted a pompous actor into office. What you have now in the states is an army of "Soccermoms"
    with a "Black & White" tunnelvision that vote with their remote - controls.
    Well, they are the perfect consumers, and the networks love to cater to them. No questions on the "State of Culture" , rather a herd of bloking sheep and cattle. No offense, but this is just my humble opinion. And who knows,
    may be the kids who those soccer moms send to "Jesus Camp" or other Bible beating institutions, will herd off old farts like me to outsourced foreign torture camps. I've seen it all.

    If you believe it's the public that follows the media, and not the other way around, then you haven't figured out how the Nielsen system works. And that's why there is no "Remember the Maine" media threat to Russia; most of the US public would rather hear about Britney Spears' latest gaffe, or about whether their employer announced lbig ayoffs or record profits, or whether their city council is going to change its local zoning laws, than listen to a 30-minute analysis on foreign trade barriers. That's just lazy American-style democracy.

    I realize there will always be a segment of the population that believes, as you seem to, that there are only certain people who are "smart" enough to participate in a democracy, and dismiss the rest as redneck, soccer-mom, gun-toting unenlightened Christian masses who have no business trying to influence something as important as government. That's OK, as both the US and Canada are democracies, and educated snobs have as much right to express their views as anyone else. Personally, I doubt the marketplace of ideas will latch onto the concept that someone with a degree from Harvard, Yale or another "place of quality" should have a disproportionate voice in government so that we end up with the "right" result, but I respect anyone's right to say that Americans are not as smart as Canadians. They may not be.

    I have been watching juries handle complicated civil trials for fifteen years. Before every trial, I've had profound skepticism in the jury's ability to assimilate complex matters of physics, physical evidence, economic damage calculations and the like, particularly since the jury is exactly the kind of person you are critical of - generally poorly educated, often unemployed, and carrying long-held biases based on their past experiences. And every time I've come away thinking that, win or lose (and I've been on both sides), the jury got it right. Surprising what collective minds, even "soccer mom" or "Christian" minds, can do when they focus on an issue.

    It's been fashionable ever since the days of Miltiades for the upper class and pseudo-intellectuals to insulate themselves in coffee shops (or their equivalent) and talk about how the less enlightened are ruining the country with their damned vote. But that system has worked better than most others, notwithstanding the bumbling idiots who occasionally get elected. Most of the griping is sour grapes from persons whose ideas are routinely marginalized in the marketplace of ideas.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    Originally posted by Jon Jordan View Post
    Although it's off topic, how is "Master i Margarita" (the mini-series)? I'm thinking about asking for a copy for Christmas. (apologies for getting off topic)
    It is excellent!!! Unfortunately, it is in Russian only (as I know)/

    Leave a comment:


  • Jon Jordan
    replied
    Originally posted by Egorka View Post
    to Jon Jordan,

    Reagrding the western press on Russia and Putin. I see you point and I agree with many of your thesises.

    As myself reading mostly western press I can say about what I feel. I do feel that most (but not all) press on Russian and Putin is russophobic.

    Here we have to remember the true meaning of word "phobia" - "an uncontrollable, irrational, and persistent fear of a specific object, situation, or activity."

    The problem of Russians is that we often see those Russophobic materials as hostile to Russia. And some of them obviously are. But we have to learn better to analyse them calmly and see if there is sertain ground for them to have that phobia (fear). And here we will realise that fear of Russia is real and sometimes well grounded. As any country that tries to become a world power, Russia did and does some moves that are to isadvantages to some other countries.This naturally leads to reaction.

    That is our, Russians, issue and we have to face it. But the other side should try to do they best too. And not to give in to that irrational feeling that can affect judgement and actions. And eventually grow in to hostile attitude to everything Russian, which I experienced often myself.

    Very well-made points, all.

    One problem that plagues both nations is really just how not to escalate statements made for home consumption and low-level disputes that don't affect west-east interests. I recall early this year when the western press was trying to take Putin's and Bush's statements on missile defense and make them sound like the Cuban Missile Crisis (I didn't notice whether it was played up in the Russian press). There is a disagreement there, true, but in the end, it is minor and won't affect either country's basic policies because neither country really believes the other wants to become a military threat. A lot of so-called crises are just the media looking for a story where there is none. It's an institutional bias it has.

    But you are also correct that there are western stereotypes that need to be cast off. Part of that problem is that it is easier for people to think -when they do think - in terms of the Cold War than the War on Terror. Hopefully that is changing, too.

    Leave a comment:


  • Emil_G
    replied
    Originally posted by Jon Jordan View Post
    Although it's off topic, how is "Master i Margarita" (the mini-series)? I'm thinking about asking for a copy for Christmas. (apologies for getting off topic)
    Master and Margarita is pretty good. Worth watching.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jon Jordan
    replied
    Originally posted by Cmde.Slavyanski View Post
    You hit the nail on the head. I can't tell you how many relatively high-quality Russian movies I see, that never get English subtitles. Of course there is a lot of crap out there too, but the same goes for Hollywood in that respect. I am planning to write a screenplay for a series of East Front films, which will definitely be marketed internationally.
    Although it's off topic, how is "Master i Margarita" (the mini-series)? I'm thinking about asking for a copy for Christmas. (apologies for getting off topic)

    Leave a comment:


  • Emil_G
    replied
    Originally posted by Konzev View Post
    Russia can overcome Russophobia, by simply exporting it's culture more aggressivly. Russia is one of the richest countries in the world, when it comes to Culture. The problem is , the west is clinging to it's roman roots, finding the byzantinic-viking roots of russia "exotic" and strange. Few westeners ever
    found access to the russian soul. Even less so now, than in the recent past,
    since the west is very clever in "Manufacturing Consennt" read Noam Chomsky, and you will find out, of what I'm aiming at. Western intellectuals becomming more and more castrated of simple curiousity, due to an marketdriven media, that just want it's viewers to consume their goods.
    Like I said before, the media is not interested in critical viewers, but consent consumers.
    What Russia got to do now, is to market their cultural products, movies, books, paintings etc. It does has some of the richest pools.
    I run a videostore in Canada, marketing russian movies aggressivly for the non russian speaking community.
    I found out, once american have seen a few russian DVD's, they are hooked to it. I have customers now, that even rent russian WW2, Civil War, movies (the history buffs), without english subtitles.
    I could 20-fold this base, if russian distributors would market them with english subtitles. A peaceful future will depend on it.
    Movies are like ambassadors of countries, it helps when they can be understood.

    Kudos to what you are doing man! It's great! Although one of my American friends recently watched Stalker on my recommendation and was not impressed by it. Granted it is not an "easy" movie but I was really hoping he would like it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Emil_G
    replied
    Originally posted by Sergio View Post
    Getting the Nazis out of France would have been the primary goal, however the politics that would follow would not have been the same so the goals were not entirely the same.

    As for Chechnya I simply stated that to say that ALL of those fighting against Russia in the First and Second War were religious fanatics was wrong because it ignores the ethnic and nationalist element. Was religious identity a part of the problem, yes. The wars saw, as has been seen in other conflicts, an increasing radicalisation and many of the insurgent groups were Islamist or jihadi in nature. And yes the importance of outside factors and the jihadi link is an integral part to the Chechnen Wars. However to say that religion and religious nationalism were "the driving force behind all resistence.. since the 1700s" simplifies things beyond belief and is onesided.

    Oversimplifying? Doubt it. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar brother.

    Leave a comment:


  • Egorka
    replied
    Originally posted by Konzev View Post
    What Russia got to do now, is to market their cultural products, movies, books, paintings etc. It does has some of the richest pools.
    I guess you are right. Bun we have to be carefull in the process... By overdoing we may end up being cought in the agitation and end up just like Holiwood. I.e. it is not about propellling as much as possible. Has to be handled gently.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cmde.Slavyanski
    replied
    You hit the nail on the head. I can't tell you how many relatively high-quality Russian movies I see, that never get English subtitles. Of course there is a lot of crap out there too, but the same goes for Hollywood in that respect. I am planning to write a screenplay for a series of East Front films, which will definitely be marketed internationally.

    Leave a comment:


  • Konzev
    replied
    Cultural Export

    Originally posted by Egorka View Post
    to Jon Jordan,

    Reagrding the western press on Russia and Putin. I see you point and I agree with many of your thesises.

    As myself reading mostly western press I can say about what I feel. I do feel that most (but not all) press on Russian and Putin is russophobic.

    Here we have to remember the true meaning of word "phobia" - "an uncontrollable, irrational, and persistent fear of a specific object, situation, or activity."

    The problem of Russians is that we often see those Russophobic materials as hostile to Russia. And some of them obviously are. But we have to learn better to analyse them calmly and see if there is sertain ground for them to have that phobia (fear). And here we will realise that fear of Russia is real and sometimes well grounded. As any country that tries to become a world power, Russia did and does some moves that are to isadvantages to some other countries.This naturally leads to reaction.

    That is our, Russians, issue and we have to face it. But the other side should try to do they best too. And not to give in to that irrational feeling that can affect judgement and actions. And eventually grow in to hostile attitude to everything Russian, which I experienced often myself.
    Russia can overcome Russophobia, by simply exporting it's culture more aggressivly. Russia is one of the richest countries in the world, when it comes to Culture. The problem is , the west is clinging to it's roman roots, finding the byzantinic-viking roots of russia "exotic" and strange. Few westeners ever
    found access to the russian soul. Even less so now, than in the recent past,
    since the west is very clever in "Manufacturing Consennt" read Noam Chomsky, and you will find out, of what I'm aiming at. Western intellectuals becomming more and more castrated of simple curiousity, due to an marketdriven media, that just want it's viewers to consume their goods.
    Like I said before, the media is not interested in critical viewers, but consent consumers.
    What Russia got to do now, is to market their cultural products, movies, books, paintings etc. It does has some of the richest pools.
    I run a videostore in Canada, marketing russian movies aggressivly for the non russian speaking community.
    I found out, once american have seen a few russian DVD's, they are hooked to it. I have customers now, that even rent russian WW2, Civil War, movies (the history buffs), without english subtitles.
    I could 20-fold this base, if russian distributors would market them with english subtitles. A peaceful future will depend on it.
    Movies are like ambassadors of countries, it helps when they can be understood.

    Leave a comment:


  • Egorka
    replied
    to Jon Jordan,

    Reagrding the western press on Russia and Putin. I see you point and I agree with many of your thesises.

    As myself reading mostly western press I can say about what I feel. I do feel that most (but not all) press on Russian and Putin is russophobic.

    Here we have to remember the true meaning of word "phobia" - "an uncontrollable, irrational, and persistent fear of a specific object, situation, or activity."

    The problem of Russians is that we often see those Russophobic materials as hostile to Russia. And some of them obviously are. But we have to learn better to analyse them calmly and see if there is sertain ground for them to have that phobia (fear). And here we will realise that fear of Russia is real and sometimes well grounded. As any country that tries to become a world power, Russia did and does some moves that are to isadvantages to some other countries.This naturally leads to reaction.

    That is our, Russians, issue and we have to face it. But the other side should try to do they best too. And not to give in to that irrational feeling that can affect judgement and actions. And eventually grow in to hostile attitude to everything Russian, which I experienced often myself.
    Last edited by Egorka; 12 Dec 07, 02:42.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    Originally posted by Jon Jordan View Post
    I agree that my knowledge of Russian policies and politics is superficial compared to yours. Your view of the US policies, press and public opinion is superficial compared to mine. And both our views about France and De Gaulle are superficial compared to Bruno (and maybe most Britons). But because we can't avoid having opinions, we can only try to be open-minded and get beyond sweeping or oversimplifying statements as much as possible.
    We are speaking about Russia now.

    I base my earlier comments on the following:

    1. Russia has a much more autocratic history over the last 200 years than France; when De Gaulle was in power there were free elections in France and Stalin ruled the USSR. I can't ignore this history when speaking about the French historical commitment to democracy compared to Russia.

    Of course what happens yesterday doesn't govern what happens tomorrow, but it does give most outsiders reason for concern that history could repeat itself.
    So what? If a country with a little democracy time in past gets a strong leader like De Gaulle who stopped the disorder inside of the country and made it stronger and the life of its people better you think it is a reason to go into hysteric and to scream about new Hitler/Stalin?

    Are you speaking if De Gaulle was a Russian and did the same he did in France it is fair to declare him a tyrant/dictator because it was in Russia?

    2. I don't see the genuine, mainstream western press comparing Putin to Hitler. The Washington Post article you posted is an example of "good press" Putin gets from time to time, just like he gets "bad press" from time to time as well. In most western sources that I've read, there is a concern but no sense of crisis.

    Sure, some less-mainstream columnists and Russian expatriates claim Putin is like Hitler, just as some in the press have compared Bush to Hitler, Tony Blair to Hitler, and virtually every US president to Hitler in the past. Putin, like any politician, just has to accept strident, often irrational criticism and move on. A sticker I saw in St. Petersburg in May that read "Not My President" with Putin's face is almost exactly the same thing that I have seen in the US with Bush's face. It should not be blown out of proportion.
    It were you who compared Putin to Hitler and modern Russia to Nazi Germany right before 1933!!! Look your post #29.

    I met the same comparisons (or hints at it like yours one in your post #29) in some other Western articles.

    And as I know the most of Western mass media write in russophobic style. Good truthful articles are very rare.
    Last edited by Andrey; 12 Dec 07, 02:09.

    Leave a comment:

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