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Words of main Russian official military historian about Warsaw Uprising in 1944

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  • #31
    Originally posted by General Makhmud Gareev aka lieing SOB
    We saw his sincere, good intentions and giant efforts with the purpose of making connections and cooperation with Polish underground for liberation of Vilnius and other regions of Lithonia, where many Poles lived. Still during approaching to these regions he sent some groups of officers in German rears for connecting with Lithuanian and Polish patriots. Many ordinary members of underground with pleasure were ready to cooperate. But leaders which were connected to Bur-Komorovskiy and other leaders of AK deceived by different ways and, in essence, didn't want to cooperate. S. Poplavskiy asked them to attack German positions from rear direction when troops of corps will approach to Vilnius but they made attempt to capture Vilnius on July, 7th and their 5,000-men detachment was broken by Germans. In result 45th Corps and other formations of 5th Army liberated Vilnius on July, 13th without support of Polish patriots.
    This the most outrages lie I heard lately. Not only, contrary to the word of this lier which you (I sure without any bad intention Andrey)quoted Polish underground helped Red Army in its fight with German, but Soviets show their gratitude...in their very special way Officers received a bullet in their skull and NCOs vere deported to Siberia.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Fredd
      This the most outrages lie I heard lately. Not only, contrary to the word of this lier which you (I sure without any bad intention Andrey)quoted Polish underground helped Red Army in its fight with German, but Soviets show their gratitude...in their very special way Officers received a bullet in their skull and NCOs vere deported to Siberia.
      I disagree with your opinion and agree with Gareev. Gareev gave concrete example how Polish AK leaders refused cooperation with Red Army and when it was reason of defeat of Polish partisan AK formation.

      If Poles who fought against Red Army were killed during combats so I do not understand what other reaction did they hope to get from Red Arny when began to shoot on Soviet soldiers? If some of them became victims of NKVD so I again do not understand what other did they want when began to fight against Soviets. They masde their choice... And I spoke about these guys who declared that they are enemies and used weapon.

      And I know that current Poles don't like Russians and thatPolish mass media writes now complete nonsense about Russians. They are some crazy about past, it is paranoia if to remember that Soviet didn't do so bad things than Germans did...

      So don't frighten public here by words like Siberia. (I live in Siberia, it is not so scared.) As I read Polish AK members who fought against Red Army were not sent in Siberia or in other places on territory of USSR, they were judged by Polish Judge and were prisoned (or executed) on territory of Poland according Polish laws of that time. But I am not expert in this question.

      Yes, large Poles who turned out on territory of USSR in 1939 were victims of NKVD and Stalin's regime but it was in other time, it was in other political epoch in USSR, situation changed to 1944.

      And amount of victims of NKVD is much less than amount of Poles who were killed by Germans. NKVD killed 10,000 of Polish POWs in Katyn' in 1940 but it is at least in 100 times less (I do not remember exact digit) that amount of Poles who were killed by Germans.
      Last edited by Andrey; 19 Nov 04, 11:12.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by menel
        The problem is that people starting the uprising didn't know that Poland was sold by USA and UK to the soviets
        Can't argue with that. Even as rabid an anti-Communist as Churchill was, he followed the socialist Roosevelt (and his Communist senior advisor Harry Hopkins), to give Stalin virtually everything he wanted in Eastern Europe.
        Mens Est Clavis Victoriae
        (The Mind Is The Key To Victory)

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Oleg Grigoryev
          No, the problem was that people who started the uprising were almost as hostile towards Soviets as they were toward Germans and everything that followed is a direct result of that.
          In all honesty, though, after Katyn, how would the Poles feel about the USSR?
          Mens Est Clavis Victoriae
          (The Mind Is The Key To Victory)

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Oleg Grigoryev
            That's gotta be some kind of new discovery - since Russia became and independent state only in 1991 and consequently could not occupy anybody prior to that date
            Now you're playing word games
            Mens Est Clavis Victoriae
            (The Mind Is The Key To Victory)

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Henryk
              It was more complicated than that. The decision to stop on the East bank of Vistula or to attempt crossing the river was not Zhukov's or Rokossovskiy's. That was Stalin's decision alone. He was hostile to the independist Poles and thus a reluctant ally at best. His long-term plans were to eradicate Polish armed underground, as he had done earlier in Eastern part of Poland, where the NKVD troops disarmed and arrested Polish partisans en masse. It made much more sense from Stalin's standpoint to see how the situation in Warsaw develops and to let the Germans do the dirty work.
              If you read my ENTIRE post, you'll note that I mentioned exactly that final control by Stalin.
              Mens Est Clavis Victoriae
              (The Mind Is The Key To Victory)

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