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  • Originally posted by BrownBear View Post
    Bartek, think about it.
    Why would you take political prisoners, thats known to dislike or even fight the regime and give them weapon? There were no political prisoners in penal units.
    Also, those movies show that commander beats up soldiers "to teach" them - would you do that knowing that in next attack you may be in front of that guy, that guy will have a weapon in his hands, and he is a known criminal?
    Nobody would ever send a penal unit group consisted from only criminals to reconnaissance mission - just common sense.
    Officers were not going to to common penal units for privates and criminals, but to special officers penal units - so there were no mix of soldiers and officers.
    Commanders of penal units higher that platoon level were normal officers, not the "court marshaled" ones.
    After the injury nobody was sent back to penal unit.
    1.When political or criminal prisoner was pushed between German defence line and NKVD MMG's company he got not choice ,only victory or death.
    2.Not all criminal prisoners are murders or rapers,some of them are thieves or robbers.They could appeared a quite good soldiers.
    3.Beating soldiers by officer is really stupid ,but officer got right to shot soldiers immediately at battlefield if he disobeyed orders.
    4.Mixing soldiers and officers at strafbat - you could be right .
    Guerrero contra marxismo

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Andrey View Post
      Have you read the links i have provided?

      There were no prisoners in penal units according it.



      Yes.Penal battalions (Shtrafbats) contained punished officers, penal companies (shtrafrotas) contained punished soldiers abd NCOs.

      Have you seen the British movie of "The Hill" with Shon Connery?



      Nonsense.



      Nonsense.



      You don't know truth.
      Have You heard about Walter Duranty ,"New York Times" journalist who wrote that there were no great hunger at Ukraina at 30's ,no great purge at 30's ,for this nonsenses he received the "Pulitzer Price" .
      John Reed was at paylist of bolscheviks ,too.
      From the time of Voltaire ,bought by Katherina the Great , Russia always got friends at Western media ,but maybe I should write "mercenaries" ?

      To be honest I admire Russian wisdom at buying "friends" on the West ,tricking Western politicians ,and I'm really amused when see or read their "geniously" opinions about poor,weak,peaceloving Russia.
      You are really good at this work,but maybe instead of wars You should think about buisness ,it's nearly the same ,but without bloodshed.
      Last edited by Bartek; 09 Sep 08, 08:59.
      Guerrero contra marxismo

      Comment


      • 1.When political or criminal prisoner was pushed between German defence line and NKVD MMG's company he got not choice ,only victory or death.
        2.Not all criminal prisoners are murders or rapers,some of them are thieves or robbers.They could appeared a quite good soldiers.
        3.Beating soldiers by officer is really stupid ,but officer got right to shot soldiers immediately at battlefield if he disobeyed orders.
        1. There was no point in sending political prisoners to front. Aside from them wanting/not wanting to fight, no officer will take them into the troop - think of responsobility for comanders, communicating with political prisoners and possibility to talk about that with NKVD - no officer will go into that.
        2. Yes, criminals of all kind were there. Later (after 1945 ) it caused a criminal war between criminals who went to the war and who did not. Not political prisoners though.
        3. officer got right to shot soldiers immediately, but movie shows beating - that just does not make sense.

        Comment


        • Ad.1) Only one point : the lack of soldiers ,in the other cases propably yes .
          Ad3) Yes, of course ,beating soldiers is useless at the frontline.At the peace time Russians officers also don't need to beat soldiers,they just punish whole platoon and later soldiers would find who is to be blame for it.
          BTW This is one of reasons that there is not stariks and salagas at Russians combat units at Czeczenia and Georgia,beating younger soldiers by older soldiers is pointless at the frontline.
          Guerrero contra marxismo

          Comment


          • Originally posted by BrownBear View Post
            2. Yes, criminals of all kind were there. Later (after 1945 ) it caused a criminal war between criminals who went to the war and who did not. Not political prisoners though.
            former criminals were used in ordinary troops

            Comment


            • First Squad Первый отряд

              Co-op production of Russian and Japanese

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp5L1...eature=related

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Andrey View Post
                former criminals were used in ordinary troops
                Ouuups I haven't known about it.

                BTW Andrey thanks for the movie "1612" ,unitl now when Poles were talking about that Polish troops seized Moscow two times nobody believed ,but after that movie ... Once more time thank you for commercial
                Guerrero contra marxismo

                Comment


                • Originally posted by BrownBear View Post
                  Later (after 1945 ) it caused a criminal war between criminals who went to the war and who did not. Not political prisoners though.
                  Yes I can imagine. Those who got the girls taunting those who never did or ever had a chance, perhaps because they were a little too far back in the supply chain.

                  Perhaps the political prisoners still had a little human dignity left and found ways to extend it to others.
                  Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
                  (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

                  Comment


                  • My friends, plz help me to get English subtitle for "Gu-Ga"

                    Comment


                    • "Bitva Za Kosmos" (The Fight for Cosmos):

                      [/CENTER]

                      Битва за космос / BBC: Space Race


                      Страна: ВВС, Великобритания
                      Первый канал, Россия
                      National Geographic Channel, США
                      NDR, Германия
                      Режиссер: Марк Эверест, Кристофер Спенсер
                      Жанр: Документальный / Художественный
                      Продолжительность: 03:22:03
                      Год выпуска: 2005
                      Перевод: Профессиональный (полное дублирование)
                      В ролях: Анна Бэркэн, Макс Боллинджер, Тодд Бойс, Стюарт Банс, Саймон Дэй, Оливер Де Ла Фоссе, Марк Декстер, Ричард Диллэйн, Энтони Эдридж, Михаил Горевой

                      Описание: "Битва за космос" - это подлинная история одного из самых захватывающих и волнующих эпизодов в истории человечества. Четырехсерийный фильм рассказывает о сражении блестящих научных умов в космической гонке двух супердержав - СССР и США. В центре противостояния двух систем, поглощавшего огромные ресурсы, и уносившего немало жизней, двое ученых: работающий на американцев бывший нацист Вернер фон Браун, и Сергей Королев - главный конструктор, руководитель советской группы разработчиков космической программы.

                      Фильм 1: Ракетная гонка
                      1944 год. Советская и американская разведки соперничают в охоте за технологическими секретами третьего Рейха. Вернер фон Браун - гениальный ученый, член нацистской партии, создатель ракет ФАУ-1 и ФАУ-2 бежит к американцам. Его ближайший помощник - Гельмут Греттруп - сдается русским. В это же время в Германии находится Сергей Королев. Через три года под его руководством в СССР осуществляют успешный запуск собственной, гораздо более совершенной, чем ФАУ-2, ракеты Р-2.

                      Фильм 2: Первый спутник
                      Руководители советской и американской космических программ - Вернер фон Браун и Сергей Королев - мечтают о полетах за пределы Земли. Но правительства супердержав согласны финансировать исключительно военные программы. и Королеву и фон Брауну приходится прикладывать немало сил, прибегая иногда к откровенным уловкам, чтобы добиться разрешения готовить к запуску первый спутник. 4 октября 1957 года сообщение о советском "искусственном спутнике земли" было на первых полосах газет всего мира. Спутник Вернера фон Брауна запустили только через 4 месяца. Американцы сравняли счет.

                      Фильм 3: Гонка на выживание
                      "Звездный отряд" в Советском Союзе против "семи первопроходцев" в Америке.Никто нe знал точно, сможет ли человек выдержать экстремальные условия путешествмя в космос. Вернер фон Браун и Сергей Королев проводят одно испытание за другим. Катастрофа с ракетой Р-16 наносит серьезный удар советской космической программе. Старт первого американского космонавта - Алана Шепарда - из-за технических проблем переносится дважды. И опять Советский Союз победил. Сегодня имя первого космонавта земли - Юрия Гагарина - знает весь мир.

                      Фильм 4: Лунная гонка
                      Триумфальный полет Гагарина в Америке восприняли как национальное унижение. Президент Кеннеди пообещал, что именно Америка отправит человека на Луну. Смерть Сергея Королева коренным образом изменила ход космической гонки. 20 июля 1969 года, спустя 25 лет с тех пор, как Вернер фон Браун прибыл в америку, его ракета доставила на ловерхность луны Нила Армстронга и Эдвина Олдрина.

                      Качество: DVDRip
                      Формат: AVI
                      Видео кодек: DivX
                      Аудио кодек: MP3
                      Видео: 640x400 (1.60:1), 25 fps, DivX Codec 5.x or 6.x ~1264 kbps avg, 0.20 bit/pixel
                      Аудио: 44.100 kHz, MPEG Layer 3, 2 ch, ~112.00 kbps avg







                      Download here - Torrent

                      Comment


                      • I saw that documentary on the BBC, very well done and I recommend it.

                        Comment


                        • "Bitva Za Kosmos" (The Fight for Cosmos):

                          I have seen a part.

                          I disliked it.

                          It looked like a Western movie about the USSR. Suits look innatural, at least a part of faces was not Russian...

                          Here is the liknk on FREE download the Soviet version of the same:

                          "Ukroschenie ognia" ("Curbing of fire")

                          It is a real masterpiece...

                          And it is in Russian...

                          http://film.arjlover.net/info/ukrosc...ognja.avi.html

                          Comment


                          • To the point,

                            visit film.arjlover.net/info/

                            It contains link on info about the most of the best Soviet movies.

                            It is possible to watch a small fragment of the movie there and to watch a few vidcaps from the movies

                            Comment


                            • Here is another russian movie:
                              Made in 1945 mostly documentary



                              to find it google (or better yandex.ru) for Shturm_Kenigsberga

                              Comment


                              • This is a cover of a very good Russian almanach, Frontline Illustration! Not a movie!

                                Comment

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