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  • Its a Finnish

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    • Hint: http://www.youtube.com/profile_play_list?user=GalaBiR
      “For there is nothing more serious than a lunatic when he comes to the central point of his lunacy.”

      Max Sterner

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      • Originally posted by Andrey View Post
        "Shtrafbat" is trash. It is not related to true Soviet penal units. Don't watch it. it is false. It was criticized a lot in Russia.
        Trash ? I don't think so ,just Soviet Russia in real.
        The fact that movie was criticized at Russia made it more true then all historical books,diaries and memories.
        Guerrero contra marxismo

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        • Trash ? I don't think so ,just Soviet Russia in real.
          Well, basically, if in USSR were a lot of nice stories about war, now it is popular to show scary stories, both pretty far from reality. Look movie "Svolochi" for example, or "Apostol".

          "some people lie that in USSR everything was perfect, others - that everything was horrible"

          As for penal units, according to what I heard "Gu-ga" is much closer to the reality movie.

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          • Originally posted by Bartek View Post
            Trash ? I don't think so ,just Soviet Russia in real.
            The fact that movie was criticized at Russia made it more true then all historical books,diaries and memories.
            the movie of shtrafbat contradicts to well-known historical facts about soviet penal units.

            it was done by incompetent people with task to get money.

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            • Originally posted by BrownBear View Post
              As for penal units, according to what I heard "Gu-ga" is much closer to the reality movie.
              it is better but it contains exaggerrations also. many facts were unknown when it was being made.

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              • Originally posted by Andrey View Post
                the movie of shtrafbat contradicts to well-known historical facts about soviet penal units.

                it was done by incompetent people with task to get money.
                Contradicts ?
                Strange but whole movie shows the same strafbat which appeared at the memories of Polish veterans who had seen Russian's strafbats.
                Maybe some things are exaggerated ,but it could be called "licencia poetica".
                Guerrero contra marxismo

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                • Originally posted by Andrey View Post
                  many facts were unknown when it was being made.
                  May I asked for a few facts from that huge number of them which " were unknown" ?
                  Guerrero contra marxismo

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                  • Originally posted by Bartek View Post
                    May I asked for a few facts from that huge number of them which " were unknown" ?
                    1. Look this for info about the Soviet penal units.

                    http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...ad.php?t=30359
                    http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...ad.php?t=35985

                    2. "Gu-ga" was done in the late 80th when it was impossible to think about un-biased showing of the events. Info about Stalin'srepressions, huge casualties, penal units, blocking detachments was being opened, and people were ready to believe to any hearsays. Before that movies were done with Soviet propaganda, in that time movies were being done with anti-Soviet propaganda. It was time of negative movies which had to compensate Soviet propaganda of the previous dozens of years. Before that the Soviets saw movies with positive info mainly, in the late 80th they saw movies with negative info mainly.

                    It is necessary to know both old Soviet movies and new movies of the late 80th to see the entire picture

                    3. Also "Gu-ga" was done as a movie to tell to the Soviets info about penal units, how people could be sent there and how they operated. Before that such an information was hidden from wide public. So the moviemakers mixed all possible negative info in the movie.

                    In reality blocking detachments were not always behind of an advancing penal units.
                    Last edited by Andrey; 08 Sep 08, 00:21.

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                    • Strange thing ,but I ' m not going to believe Russians archives and your "palace" historicians ,I 'm not really understand why ? Maybe I 've heard to many lies made by USSR.
                      What I know about strafbats .
                      1.They were been formed from prisoners of GULAG ,and that's why there were mixed political ,national and ordinary criminal prisoners ,and that is at the movie.
                      2.They were also formed from soldiers and officers who were send there by court martial,for different reasons ,sometimes for cowardice,sometimes for disobeyed orders ,of course at RKKA fact that infrantry company was appeared unable to seize the hill defending by mechanized company very often meant "disobeyed ordres",that is at the movie.
                      3.For three comapnies of "strafnikow" was one NKVD MMG's company ,sometimes supported with tanks.
                      4.At each army all over the world the penal units are to fight in impossible missions ,but at RKKA they were ussually disposable units ,and that is at the movie.

                      BTW There were no "anti-soviet propaganda" at the late 80's ,because all that things were true.
                      Guerrero contra marxismo

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                      • Originally posted by Bartek View Post
                        Strange thing ,but I ' m not going to believe Russians archives and your "palace" historicians ,I 'm not really understand why ? Maybe I 've heard to many lies made by USSR.
                        What I know about strafbats .
                        1.They were been formed from prisoners of GULAG ,and that's why there were mixed political ,national and ordinary criminal prisoners ,and that is at the movie.
                        Have you read the links i have provided?

                        There were no prisoners in penal units according it.

                        2.They were also formed from soldiers and officers who were send there by court martial,for different reasons ,sometimes for cowardice,sometimes for disobeyed orders ,of course at RKKA fact that infrantry company was appeared unable to seize the hill defending by mechanized company very often meant "disobeyed ordres",that is at the movie.
                        Yes.Penal battalions (Shtrafbats) contained punished officers, penal companies (shtrafrotas) contained punished soldiers abd NCOs.

                        Have you seen the British movie of "The Hill" with Shon Connery?

                        3.For three comapnies of "strafnikow" was one NKVD MMG's company ,sometimes supported with tanks.
                        Nonsense.

                        4.At each army all over the world the penal units are to fight in impossible missions ,but at RKKA they were ussually disposable units ,and that is at the movie.
                        Nonsense.

                        BTW There were no "anti-soviet propaganda" at the late 80's ,because all that things were true.
                        You don't know truth.
                        Last edited by Andrey; 08 Sep 08, 11:46.

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                        • Bartek, think about it.
                          Why would you take political prisoners, thats known to dislike or even fight the regime and give them weapon? There were no political prisoners in penal units.
                          Also, those movies show that commander beats up soldiers "to teach" them - would you do that knowing that in next attack you may be in front of that guy, that guy will have a weapon in his hands, and he is a known criminal?
                          Nobody would ever send a penal unit group consisted from only criminals to reconnaissance mission - just common sense.
                          Officers were not going to to common penal units for privates and criminals, but to special officers penal units - so there were no mix of soldiers and officers.
                          Commanders of penal units higher that platoon level were normal officers, not the "court marshaled" ones.
                          After the injury nobody was sent back to penal unit.

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                          • Read "PENALTY STRIKE: The Memoirs of a Red Army Penal Company Commander 1943-45" of Aleksandr Pyl'cyn.

                            http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...irdreichfactbo

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                            • Take it easy, gentlemen - just another troll here. Look at his post list - only anti-Russian "holy wars" participation.

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                              • Originally posted by Rambow View Post
                                Take it easy, gentlemen - just another troll here. Look at his post list - only anti-Russian "holy wars" participation.
                                Take it easy boy,Lenin had already written about "useful idiots" nearly one hundred years ago.
                                Guerrero contra marxismo

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