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  • Quote:
    Question for the Westerners which read this theread: what do you prefer: 1) to get to know about all good Russian movies and then decide what you want to see and what not to see or 2) to trust to somebody who 'knows it better'?

    I guess we westeners are not much cleverer than the russian people, and just like a certain percentage in both of our cultures , have little use when it comes to using free speech. They rather go with the media, religion or other manipulative instruments, to tell them how to think, digest and believe.
    Few people dare to venture out, dare the exotic or celebrate a diffrent culture. Besides the open minded intellectuals, most is up to "the authorities"
    to stir a certain cultural direction.

    Having said all that, I just see myself as a rather curious fellow.
    And curious is a state in the western culture, that is no longer be incouraged.
    Very close of what was happening in the later stages of the old soviet system. We moving at high speed in the same direction, who knows what our fate will be.

    Comment


    • Good Russian Millitary Movies:

      "Enemy at the Gates" is a stereotypical far- graphed adaption of the World War Two battlefield: Stalingrad. The accents are AWFUL!
      "The Objective in war is not to die for your country, but to make the other (guy) die for his." - PATTON
      "If Emily Post doesn't work, try Sigmund Freud." - Hogan

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Loki View Post
        "Enemy at the Gates" is a stereotypical far- graphed adaption of the World War Two battlefield: Stalingrad. The accents are AWFUL!
        The accents are the last thing wrong with that movie, my friend.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Konzev View Post
          Quote:
          Question for the Westerners which read this theread: what do you prefer: 1) to get to know about all good Russian movies and then decide what you want to see and what not to see or 2) to trust to somebody who 'knows it better'?

          I guess we westeners are not much cleverer than the russian people, and just like a certain percentage in both of our cultures , have little use when it comes to using free speech. They rather go with the media, religion or other manipulative instruments, to tell them how to think, digest and believe.
          Few people dare to venture out, dare the exotic or celebrate a diffrent culture. Besides the open minded intellectuals, most is up to "the authorities"
          to stir a certain cultural direction.

          Having said all that, I just see myself as a rather curious fellow.
          And curious is a state in the western culture, that is no longer be incouraged.
          Very close of what was happening in the later stages of the old soviet system. We moving at high speed in the same direction, who knows what our fate will be.
          I would most certainly like to hear recommendations to the multitude of Russian language war films, and cinema in general. One great problem is that when I'm looking for rare films on the net, and then maybe order one with VISA, many such Russian sites, are in Cyrillik letters, and unfortunately, I cannot read cyrillic letters.

          (great business idea, when will somebody get a russian text book/dictionary/frase book that has all the words ect in it, but is written in LATIN letters, so that somebody who just wants to start to learn Russian language, doesnt have to learn a whole new alphabet to start with)!


          Anyway, I would love to see each of the films that Andrey put on his list on the first post of this thread. They ALL sound like interesting films...

          I have seen a couple of Russian films about ww2, and especially the ones made during the Soviet period, had some good parts in them, they really had the extra's, so that you got the feeling of massive battles...

          One film, which I watched in StPetersburg, and was ofcourse in Russian, but I could undestand, and it was about the women, who were suddenly left to take care of their Kolhoosh/Sovhoosh (kind of state-communally owned farm and dairy operation, size varied). This is like a large village but with only women, and it shows the progression of the war from their perspecive, the women who get the letters informing that their husband/brother/Father had died, and then slowly some men start to come back, in wheelchairs ect...

          And they had to do so much work! I mean over half of the work force was gone, and it was the physically stronger half that had gone. But the women did the job and kept the wheat coming, and milk flowing...

          The radio and post had a central position, as they followed where their men were... In the end, a very touching part, was when a woman who was the first one to receive a 'your husband was killed', message, all of a sudden sees this Military Jeep coming back, and it's his husband, I guess he had joined the partisans, and had become somekind of leader figure, in that mercyless war behind the german lines during 41-44... And then, I suppose he was an officer, and didnt have time, but he returns, and tells everybody, that he had been in Berlin, and that Hitler was dead... A great film, and done so well, that I could undertand it even though i cannot speak russian!

          Another one I saw when I was about 11 or 12, it was about these guys who were somekind of staff officers, close to the front, I remember this very impressive shot, where they had literally tens, and tens of the real 'Stalin organs', firing into the night, and German counter fire get's one of the main characters in the head through the eye, and there is this scene, with his friend holding his friend as he bleeds to death, from this mashed up eye, with all of these firing 'katyusha' rockets giving a hellish light to the whole shot... I was very impressed by it...

          It would be great if somebody would translate at least some of these films with subtitles...

          I saw the film about the USSR soldiers in Afghanistan, made a year ago, or so, called 'Company 9', I think... It had some good bit's in it, but wasnt as good as I thought it would be... Enemy at my gates, was much better, even though it had British and face Russian accents mixed up, the direction was good, and the director has done good work before... I liked it...

          And remember, it was the first western war film which was told totally from the view point of the Soviet soldiers, even though it was a very specialized form of war, with sniping, mixed with visits, to 'mrs Filipova', just like you could pop in to somebody's home through different Battalions ect, in the ever smaller enclave of Chuikov's command... Still, a good representation of the Volga river, and what the crossing was like when the Germans were still strong... Also, the Politruks, although by very bad dramatics, were shown, as the NKVD had to be in Stalingrad, they were given orders to give no mercy, and circa 13000 Soviet soldiers were executed by the NKVD, but this really put the steel into the soldiers, and once they had held, long enough, so that Zukov could finally unleash operation Uranus...

          Well, then the real victory was a Red Army that belived it could beat, and eventually win the war against the Germans!

          I stand by 'enemy at the gates', dispite all of it's flaws... I have seen a tv series a miniseries of about 10 episodes, about men who were put in the Red Army's punishment battalions... Not so good, HBO's, band of brothers was better all in all...

          But there is another series showing here in Estonia, called something like 'Desant', or something like that... I'ts also about ww2, and is very popular...

          I saw a recent film, called 'Star', and it was about a Soviet LRP, circa spring 44... Again, a dissapointment... Even though some have thought very high of it, but I cannot see the excuses for the lack of realism, after Saving private Ryan showed the way to do it, and the miniseries 'Band of brothers', almost re-created it, and it was for TV!

          There is no more excuses for the old shcool of makign war films, after Private Ryan... The Realism, was based on simple things after all... And computer animation isnt it!

          Anyway, thanks for the list Andrey! Spasiba.
          "SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM" - " If you want peace, prepare for war".

          If acted upon in time, ww2 could have been stopped without a single bullet being fired. - Sir Winston Churchill

          Comment


          • Originally posted by 17poundr View Post
            One film, which I watched in StPetersburg, and was ofcourse in Russian, but I could undestand, and it was about the women, who were suddenly left to take care of their Kolhoosh/Sovhoosh (kind of state-communally owned farm and dairy operation, size varied). This is like a large village but with only women, and it shows the progression of the war from their perspecive, the women who get the letters informing that their husband/brother/Father had died, and then slowly some men start to come back, in wheelchairs ect...
            Kolhoz was not a village with women only. Kolhoz means a Collective Farm. There were only women there because it was a typical picture of a Soviet village of WWII - PRACTICALLY ALL the men were sent to fight!!! Women and teenagers worked in fieldes and plants!

            But there is another series showing here in Estonia, called something like 'Desant', or something like that... I'ts also about ww2, and is very popular...
            "Diversant" ("Saboteur"). IMHO it is a low quality movie.

            If anyone have got problems with language I again repeat - look www.ruscico.com.

            ALL the movies there are translated o English with THE VERY HIGH QUALITY.

            Spend 10 more dollars than in other places but you'll get a high quality movie right to your home by mail.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Andrey View Post
              Kolhoz was not a village with women only. Kolhoz means a Collective Farm. There were only women there because it was a typical picture of a Soviet village of WWII - PRACTICALLY ALL the men were sent to fight!!! Women and teenagers worked in fieldes and plants!



              "Diversant" ("Saboteur"). IMHO it is a low quality movie.

              If anyone have got problems with language I again repeat - look www.ruscico.com.

              ALL the movies there are translated o English with THE VERY HIGH QUALITY.

              Spend 10 more dollars than in other places but you'll get a high quality movie right to your home by mail.
              Yes, my dear Andrey, I know what a Kolhoz (in Finnish we call it 'Kolhoosi'), is. I was trying to explain to readers from the US, Canada, Australia, and Western Europe, who might not be familiar with the term... I was also trying to explain that all the men were taken by the war!

              It was hard for the women too, and these were women who were still inside the USSR, not nazi occupied territory! Can you imagine the life of villagers in Belorussia? My god it must have been terrible! The Nazi's did horrible crimes, and sometimes, killed just because they would take all food and firewood, and move on, and the villagers in the middle of -35celsius, couldnt go and just get more food 'from the shop'... They were totally f***d! Death by the horrible combination of cold and hunger, was the fate of many a Russian/Ukrainian villager... True, there were over 500 villages completely pillaged, and sometimes even burned in Belorussia during the late summer/autumn of 1941 alone!

              And, this had nothing to do with jews, or partisans, (they hadnt formed up, and there were only a very fiew that far west in 41). The Germans were just doing it for fun...

              The Professor in Edingburgh, who is an expert on the Eastern front, John Erickson, who wrote the book 'The road to Stalingrad'. (here if you want the book, http://www.amazon.com/Road-Stalingra...6470061&sr=8-1).

              I liked it, it's a bit akademic in style, but tries to tell the story of june22 1941 to about the stalingrad 'fall', of new year 42 to 43...

              In a dokumentary he stressed that all German troops were read a special speech from the Fuhrer on the eve of operation Barbarossa.

              And how this special speech/order, all but relived the German soldiers going across the Soviet border, of any normal military law, as considering the behaviour upon the civilians of the land that was to be concuered...

              Yes, there had been unforseen calamities toward civilians, totally against the 'rules of war', that had more or less been upheld during ww1...

              And, yes, the rape of Nanking, or the bombing of purely civilian targets (Towns in China, guernica, Rotterdam, and the orders to shoot up french civilians on the roads, so they would panic, and glog up the roads even more... After this, I belive bombing civilians was seen as a normal part of this 'new warfare', that was ww2, and let us not forget, that the Zeppelin raids, or the RAF handley page bombers hitting west Germany during ww1, already showed that warfare was becoming more mercyless toward civilians).

              But, still there were a loose ammount of somekind of rules, I mean, before the attack on Russia, since the darker ages of sword and pike, when armies literally could 'rape and plunder' as their prize for winning a battle, but the civilized nations had outlawed that kind of behaviour, along with the notion of the rights of the POW, and even treatment of enemy wounded ect...

              But, in Russia, the order that was read to 3 million German troops, told that no longer a man one hundred miles behind the front line could just go into a village, drunk, shoot an old man sitting on some steps, and when his screaming daughter came along, just take her to the house, and rape her, then perhaps pack the house full, and burn it...

              This was what happened, and it wasnt just the SS, although, when they came to town, things were always bad, still the normal Wermacht soldier, acted very much like Arkan and co, when suddenly 200 ex supporters of a Belgrade football team, turned 'shock troops', would follow the army, or hit a village without defence, and just 'go medieval'... A very similar behaviour got into many a Wermacht soldier...

              Many of the worst deeds, were not done by frontline soldiers, but the supply collumn, 50km behind, resting for the night, and getting some vodka, in the morning, they would forget their hangovers, and march on, and perhaps still have a bit of drink, to forget what had happened to the smoking village behind them in the previous night...

              But, can you imagine, when after a year under the German troops, some Russian partisans come... And you are a woman who has suffered the whole lot of abuse, and seen all the killing, and you think "wonderful! Now I will be protected"! But many of the smaller, unorganized partisan bands, were just surviving, and in these kind of cituations, some bands turned good, with good leaders, and solidarity, but some were taken over by individuals who were totally without any inhibitors in their wish to survive, these kind of bands did also violence to their own countrymen and women, especially in the Ukraine, where men from somewhere near Moscow, were in western Ukraine, hiding and had seen how the local population had greeted the Germans (for the beginning, it stopped, when the Germans, did one of their greatest strategic mistakes, in not making the Ukrainians their allies, and a vassal state, with factories making guns, and perhaps even get a tank plant going... But no, with the ubermench mentality, they completely alienated the Ukrainians, and soon there were Ukrainian nationalists who fought the Germans and Soviet minded partisans, and in the middle the villagers tried to survive...

              The cituation, must have been familiar to many who remembered the civil war of 1918-1922...

              I do not know why I started to rant on this subject. Sorry, if I got out of the subject.

              Thanks very much for the link!!! I will certainly order some films from there, do they also do famous films that are not about war? I know that my mother would like to get Tarkovski and other films which I cannot remember, but which she went to the cinema to see in the 70s. If they were ok for kids I would go with her, they had subtitles. Funny films, about crazy families, you know childrens films. That have also humour for the adults... Well, I must go and look for my self!

              Thanks again, I have wanted to find such a treasure chest for a long time! And it's just like Amazon? You just pop in your visa and the film comes in the post?

              Yours truly, Mr Poundr.

              THIS IS THE BOOK BY PROF, ERICSON


              THIS IS FOR YOU ANDREY! I BET YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE IN COMMAND OF ONE OF THESE?


              BlackEagle MBT


              AN ODDITY OF THE RUSSIAN FRONT, WE ALL HAVE HEARD OF GERMANS (AND FINNS ALWAYS WHEN POSSIBLE), TAKING T-34 TANKS AND PAINTING THEIR MARKINGS ON THEM... BUT, THAT THE SOVIETS WERE TAKING PANZER IIIs!!


              A captured PzKpfw III under command of Milrofanov on the way into combat...

              I think I know why... This would have been a great command vehicle during 41-42, as it's radio equipment would have been better than in any Russian tanks of the era, am I right?
              Attached Files
              "SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM" - " If you want peace, prepare for war".

              If acted upon in time, ww2 could have been stopped without a single bullet being fired. - Sir Winston Churchill

              Comment


              • Shrtafbat

                I bought this from Amazon.de and thought it would at least be sub-titled in German, if not English. Niet! Only in Russian, but I am impressed with the few episodes I have seen. Does anyone know of a (preferably sub-titled) version in German or English?

                I prefer sub-titles to dubbing (though what German TV audiences will make of trhe BBC spoof 'ello, ello! remains to be seen.

                I would like to see more Russian films. I have Star and the German-subtitled im Morgengrauen ist es noch still - in the grey of morning it is still silent. I would recommend both, also The 9th Company.

                Let's have none of the east-west hostility please. Some of Holywood's and Australia's recent war films have been excellent, ditto the French Days of Glory. There is room for all these.
                Last edited by Charles Markuss; 26 Mar 08, 11:48.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Charles Markuss View Post
                  I bought this from Amazon.de and thought it would at least be sub-titled in German, if not English. Niet! Only in Russian, but I am impressed with the few episodes I have seen. Does anyone know of a (preferably sub-titled) version in German or English?
                  The easiest way to get movies with excellent English/French/German voice/subtitles - visit www.ruscico.com.

                  "Shtrafbat" can be considered good if to speak about the actors play. But it is lie if to speak about the real penal units and their usage in battles.
                  Last edited by Andrey; 25 Mar 08, 21:05.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by 17poundr View Post
                    Thanks very much for the link!!! I will certainly order some films from there, do they also do famous films that are not about war? I know that my mother would like to get Tarkovski and other films which I cannot remember, but which she went to the cinema to see in the 70s. If they were ok for kids I would go with her, they had subtitles. Funny films, about crazy families, you know childrens films. That have also humour for the adults... Well, I must go and look for my self!

                    Thanks again, I have wanted to find such a treasure chest for a long time! And it's just like Amazon? You just pop in your visa and the film comes in the post?
                    Yes, they (www.ruscico.com) do have many other good movies (non-militaries). But not all of their movies are good.

                    I think it is described thee how to pay and what and when you'll get it.

                    I haven't paid anything from there as I haven't got visa and they trade with foreigners only.
                    Last edited by Andrey; 25 Mar 08, 21:52.

                    Comment


                    • Good link for English speaking cheap skates

                      Found this link on a different forum. It is a youtube accnt with lots of Soviet movies with English subs. It is borken up of course, and is youtube quality but it's free....maybe some of you would be interested. Right on the front page, is a great movie - The Heart Of Dog, based on a M. Bulgakov novel.

                      http://www.youtube.com/user/GalaBiR

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Andrey View Post
                        The easiest way to get movies with excellent English/French/German voice/subtitles - visit www.ruscico.com.

                        "Shtrafbat" can be considered good if to speak about the actors play. But it is lie if to speak about the real penal units and their usage in battles.
                        Yes, I have a book by a Russian officer who served in a penal battalion but was not sent there as a punishment - it gives a totally different picture of how these untis were used. Another old myth that needs to be corrected.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Charles Markuss View Post
                          Yes, I have a book by a Russian officer who served in a penal battalion but was not sent there as a punishment - it gives a totally different picture of how these untis were used. Another old myth that needs to be corrected.
                          The survival rate of the penal battalions was really low... I thought that the Russian TV series had one very interesting point, which wasnt really answered, the fact that there were people there from gulags, who were common criminals, and then there were the people from the gulags, who were political prisons, and then men who were already soldiers, but where sent into a penal battalion as a dissiplinary action...

                          Was there tension between these different groups of men, or did they die or get wounded before they could even sort out who was who?

                          What stopped the penal battalions just going over and surrendering en masse? Who were the tough sergeants ect, who kept the men attacking agaisnt horrible odds??? I mean they were not volunteers (well, some political gulag members might have been volunteers, but, well, I dont know, the tv series was obviously a drama, not documentary, so I dont know, how the people from the gulags got into the penal battalions, did they sign up? I mean did they volunteer, or where they just ordered)?

                          I have seen an interview with one man who served in a penal battalion during ww2. He was in his late teens, just before the age to being called into the army was coming, but still in school... He spoke back to his teacher, in a angry way, and was put on trial for huliganism... He got sent to a penal battalion, he got to the unit, most were new guys, their task was to be the first wave in an attack, through mine fields...

                          He got wounded, but was afraid to go back, as he wasnt very badly wounded, he had heard of people getting shot for coming back, with minor wounds, the idea apparently of the officers running this battalion, was that the men had to pay for their crimes toward mother Russia, with their blood, but then he was hit again, and he was wounded enough, to get first aid...

                          I do not know, what happened to him, but I belive he was releaced from the penal battalion after this first attack where he was badly wounded.

                          But that's one story, and many many men fought in these units...

                          Other countries had them too... I know that Germans used similar units... Some where like the Russian ones, other ones like the SS Dirlewanger, were something that nobody could invent, it was too perverce... They got their infamy during the combat in the Warsaw uprising (the jewish ghetto uprising, possibly the second polish uprising too, I'm not shure)...
                          "SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM" - " If you want peace, prepare for war".

                          If acted upon in time, ww2 could have been stopped without a single bullet being fired. - Sir Winston Churchill

                          Comment


                          • Originally Posted by 17poundr: ...there were people there from gulags, who were common criminals, and then there were the people from the gulags, who were political prisons...
                            This is actually one of the inaccuracies of this movie. The political prisoners were not allowed to go to the frontline, even they asked about this very much.

                            Was there tension between these different groups of men, or did they die or get wounded before they could even sort out who was who?
                            Accroding to the veterans' memories, there were significant tensions due to specific mentality of these criminals. Most of them could be identified very easily as criminals due to their special slang and habits.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Charles Markuss View Post
                              Yes, I have a book by a Russian officer who served in a penal battalion but was not sent there as a punishment - it gives a totally different picture of how these untis were used. Another old myth that needs to be corrected.
                              What book is this?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Vitaly View Post
                                This is actually one of the inaccuracies of this movie. The political prisoners were not allowed to go to the frontline, even they asked about this very much.



                                Accroding to the veterans' memories, there were significant tensions due to specific mentality of these criminals. Most of them could be identified very easily as criminals due to their special slang and habits.
                                Thankyou for correcting that! I thougth that the 'movie' (It was more like a ten part miniseries wasnt it, or are we talking of separate productions), wasnt so good anyway, but we get so little Russian films now. Back in the seventies they had a movie theater that specialized in Russian films... Anyway this 'movie' I'm talking about was a long drawn out affair, of over ten episodes, I saw it on Finnish tv about half a year ago.

                                It was called something like 'battalion so and so'... I cannot remember properly, but it started off, rather interestingly, although one of the interesting dramatics, ie, the tension between the political guys and the criminals, was not true, but then the series got really bad... I mean, it wasnt true war, it was just bad drama)...
                                Last edited by 17poundr; 27 Mar 08, 10:56.
                                "SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM" - " If you want peace, prepare for war".

                                If acted upon in time, ww2 could have been stopped without a single bullet being fired. - Sir Winston Churchill

                                Comment

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