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  • Sweet! Come and See is a great movie! A real jolt. When the girl is zombie-walking back from being gang raped, all bloody....*shudder*

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    • Yeah that was really sad. This is the only movie of its kind where the Nazis are believable. Schindler's List is melodramatic and pretentious in comparison.

      What was with that one soldier in his exercise clothing the whole time though? I've never heard of Germans wearing that in the field.

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      • I also liked how disorienting and confusing it is; it's like "who are the nazis? Who are the partisans? Why are these Nazies speaking Russian? Who is that?"

        This movie did not pass censor boards originally because it portrayed Nazi collaboratrs. (even though it portrayed them quite unflatteringly!).

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        • What was with that one soldier in his exercise clothing the whole time though? I've never heard of Germans wearing that in the field.
          When is this? The goofy, scummy looking guy that helps burn down the barn is a Cossack collaborator. Is that who you mean?

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          • He was wearing an SS PT-shirt, shorts, boots, and a German cover. The Cossack collaborater was the one they got out of the house, right? Not the blonde one wearing cossack garb at the execution, I don't think. I sort of figured what he was when he spoke up in the house all the people were hiding in.
            Anyway I don't know why showing collaborators would be censored. Alexander Nevsky had a whole theme of collaborators with "Nazis."

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            • Did he have a goofy looking huge swastika on his helemet? That's the another collaborator, he was pushing the people into the barn, and they almost locked him inside! LOL! Then the cossack lit the barn...(at least that's how I remember it).

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              • Originally posted by Emil_G View Post
                When is this? The goofy, scummy looking guy that helps burn down the barn is a Cossack collaborator. Is that who you mean?
                The Germans used secondary police organized from local people. Sometimes they were dressed in uniform, sometimes - not. Sometimes they used special signs - like a white stripe on one hand. Usually it contained different rabble but it also contained local nationalists. And sometimes partisans sent their people to infiltrate to the secondary police.

                The most famous Nazi collaborators were Ukrainian nationalists from Western Ukraine.

                Their slogan was "to kill Russians, Jews and Poles".

                They often took part in German punitive anti-partisan operations.

                In the end of the war the Germans organized SS Division "Galichina" from those nationalists.

                In the end of the war Ukrainian nationalists sometimes fought against the Germans.

                Now they are considered heroes in the Ukraine.

                So take care with the using of the term of Cossaks!
                Last edited by Andrey; 17 Mar 08, 01:38.

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                • ? Cossacks that helped the Germans were still Cossacks.

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                  • Originally posted by Emil_G View Post
                    ? Cossacks that helped the Germans were still Cossacks.
                    How did you define they had been Cossacks and not Ukrainian nationalists or simply local secondary policemen from a nearest town?
                    Last edited by Andrey; 17 Mar 08, 03:06.

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                    • Originally posted by Andrey View Post
                      How did you define they had been Cossacks and not Ukrainian nationalists or simply local secondary policemen from a nearest town?
                      Maybe, but I am pretty sure one of the characters had a kubanka and a mustache and a uniform, also, the movie takes place in Belorussia....so probably not a lot of Ukranian nationalists there...

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                      • Originally posted by Emil_G View Post
                        Maybe, but I am pretty sure one of the characters had a kubanka and a mustache and a uniform, also, the movie takes place in Belorussia....so probably not a lot of Ukranian nationalists there...
                        There were no Cossacks living in Byelorussia. But the Ukraine was to south from Byelorussia so Ukrainian nationalists were not too far from Byelorussia.

                        If somebody had kubanka on his head it doesn't mean he was a Cossack.

                        Mustache and uniform... Do you really think it is a Cossack's sign?

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                        • Ok, ask Elem Klimov, I don't even really care - the character looked like a cossack, some cossacks helped the Nazis, so I called the character a cossack...

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                          • Quite possibly the makers of the movie intended the character as a cossack. Why else cast someone with a big bolshy mustasch and then give this person a kubanka if not to make him look like a cossack? Directors and script writer tend to make things simple and straight forward when it comes to the extras..

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                            • Originally posted by Emil_G View Post
                              Ok, ask Elem Klimov, I don't even really care - the character looked like a cossack, some cossacks helped the Nazis, so I called the character a cossack...
                              can you make a vidcap of that guy? i'll say is he a cosack or not

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                              • Yesterday and the day before yesterday, I watched new (2007) Russian movie "Lenin's Testament". 12 parts 45 minutes each (see www.imdb.com/title/tt1047803/). This is made on "The Kolyma Tales" by Varlaam Shalamov

                                The movie is very good, IMHO. I did not expect that Russian cinema is still able to make such good movies... If you will find it with English subtitles, I recommend you to spend some time for it...

                                This movie is not about WW2 (although covers some specifics of GULAG life during the war time). But it shows very well the political and mentality mainstream of that time, IMHO.

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