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  • Originally posted by Andrey View Post
    Do you understand what are you doing now? People will read your message and think: "No, I'll not see that movie, it is wrong."

    You should differ the scale of non-truth. German panzers in "They fought for the Motherland" also are not those T-II and T-IV's which fought in 1942 against Soviet troops. They are T-55's with false square turrets. But it doesn't mean that the movie showed events incorrectly.

    There are COMPLETELY fiction movies with absolutely fantastic events which are not related to reality.
    Yes, I understand what I'm doing...
    I hope you can see that the subject of discussion is NOT difference between T-55s and Pz-IV. Or in this case, difference of mine-sweepers mod. 1941 from those, used in the movie.
    I only want to inform those, who will see this movie, that real events were absolute different from those, showed in the picture.
    Or you think events in American movies about WWII (easter, or western fronts) are shown correctly?
    It's not our privilegie to show the events in...khm...a bit another way, than they took place in realty...



    What are you talking about? About the names of the units, people or settlemets?

    The movie shows a large scale diversionary operation when the Soviet Command sent a fresh Mech Corps to attack enemy with the mission to prevent the transferring of German troops from that place to Stalingrad. The Corps broke the German defence and went to German rears. Then the Germans cut it off. The remains of the Corps lost all the tanks and other heavy equipment but broke through enemy encirclements and joined to the main forces. But the Germans couldn't transfer troops to Stalingrad so the heavy losses of the Corps was not meaningless. Here is the idea of the movie.
    And such things occurred a few times during "Operation Mars".
    I'm speaking about the whole conception.
    I think prototype was the corps of General Solomatin.
    I'll speak with my friend to clarify what exactly was wrong in the movie...
    If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

    Comment


    • Originally posted by amvas View Post
      Yes, I understand what I'm doing...
      I hope you can see that the subject of discussion is NOT difference between T-55s and Pz-IV. Or in this case, difference of mine-sweepers mod. 1941 from those, used in the movie.
      I only want to inform those, who will see this movie, that real events were absolute different from those, showed in the picture.
      You have used the term of "absolute different".

      How do you differ "absolute different" and "different in some details"?

      Absolute different means complete false for me.

      I'm speaking about the whole conception.
      I think prototype was the corps of General Solomatin.
      I'll speak with my friend to clarify what exactly was wrong in the movie...
      Again, it is a question of small details.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Andrey View Post
        You have used the term of "absolute different".

        How do you differ "absolute different" and "different in some details"?

        Absolute different means complete false for me.
        Ok, if you prefer "absolute false" I can use this term.
        Because I couldn't meet in this moovie any real event, which had been showed correctly without errors...


        Again, it is a question of small details.
        We even have no detailed description of "Mars" operation in historical literature just now, and you are going to say it's shown only with somewhat incorrect details?
        Besides all declare that only the corps of Solomatin attracted 4 German Pz. Divisions would be too brave...
        If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

        Comment


        • Originally posted by amvas View Post
          Ok, if you prefer "absolute false" I can use this term.
          Because I couldn't meet in this moovie any real event, which had been showed correctly without errors...
          Very strange. That were you who wrote earlier about that movie. I don't remember it exactly. If it was one large false why did you mentioned this movie as good a few months ago??? In that message you didn't write that the movie's contests were incorrect.

          We even have no detailed description of "Mars" operation in historical literature just now, and you are going to say it's shown only with somewhat incorrect details?
          Besides all declare that only the corps of Solomatin attracted 4 German Pz. Divisions would be too brave...
          Nobody speaks it was only Solomatin's Corps who attracted those German divisions. It was one of those units which took part in that diversionary operation.

          I speak about some incorrect details only because only the details were unknown but the main conception was known.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Andrey View Post
            Very strange. That were you who wrote earlier about that movie. I don't remember it exactly. If it was one large false why did you mentioned this movie as good a few months ago??? In that message you didn't write that the movie's contests were incorrect.
            Yes, it was me to write this.
            The movie is good, but events showed there have very small degree with realities. So, if you don't know about real events, you'll get pleasure. If you aware of them, you'll be disappointed


            Nobody speaks it was only Solomatin's Corps who attracted those German divisions. It was one of those units which took part in that diversionary operation.

            I speak about some incorrect details only because only the details were unknown but the main conception was known.
            Ok, ok....
            If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

            Comment


            • Gentlemen I see our Russian friends are as big history film geeks as us Westerners. Warms my heart it does, it means you would never like a film like Pearl Harbor (which I dislike, except for Kate Beckinsdale). In fact you both did discuss a bad recent Russian film here, about the PQ-17 convoy if I am correct.

              I will say in my opinion there is nothing wrong with a good entertaining movie as long as it is understood to be entertainment and not a history lesson. The few films Russian films I've seen are both good history and provide a good history lesson for those who did not know the Soviet war effort. I would say some films like to use a Western example like Kelly's Heros is only meant to be comedy. It is not trash like say Enemy at the Gates. So I guess some Soviet/Russian films could be good fun too.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by joea View Post
                Warms my heart it does, it means you would never like a film like Pearl Harbor (which I dislike, except for Kate Beckinsdale).
                I like Pearl-Harbour -

                Can you explain what is wrong there (I know in details what really happened in Pearl Harbour)? I think I saw the worse US movies about the war.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by joea View Post
                  Gentlemen I see our Russian friends are as big history film geeks as us Westerners. Warms my heart it does, it means you would never like a film like Pearl Harbor (which I dislike, except for Kate Beckinsdale). In fact you both did discuss a bad recent Russian film here, about the PQ-17 convoy if I am correct.

                  I will say in my opinion there is nothing wrong with a good entertaining movie as long as it is understood to be entertainment and not a history lesson. The few films Russian films I've seen are both good history and provide a good history lesson for those who did not know the Soviet war effort. I would say some films like to use a Western example like Kelly's Heros is only meant to be comedy. It is not trash like say Enemy at the Gates. So I guess some Soviet/Russian films could be good fun too.
                  I still prefer old version of PQ-17 movie, which I have on DVD

                  And it was not me to discuss some new ones....
                  If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by amvas View Post
                    I still prefer old version of PQ-17 movie, which I have on DVD
                    Never heard about old version...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Andrey View Post
                      Never heard about old version...
                      Ok, I may be wrong here....
                      If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Andrey View Post
                        I like Pearl-Harbour -

                        Can you explain what is wrong there (I know in details what really happened in Pearl Harbour)? I think I saw the worse US movies about the war.
                        Oh there were many bad US films about WWII or other wars.

                        Well it did have good special effects (if you can overlook the modern Spruance class destroyers with their modern radar masts) most of the computer generated planes and ships are accurate enough.

                        There are errors in the film, for example the main actors discuss the Zero vs. the P-40..."The Zeroes are faster than our P40's, but ours are more agile !" The Zero in fact was in general slower than US planes, a bit slower than the P-40...but actually more agile and manoeuvrable so the reality was the opposite! When the characters of Ben Affleck and Josh Harnett take part in the Doolittle bombing of Tokyo and crash in China, Ben manages to hold off a whole platoon of Japanese soldiers with a pistol.

                        Worse was the historical mistakes or lack of explanation, for example it mentions that Japan went to war because of an oil embargo from the US, but it doesn't explain why or even make clear that Japan was allied with Nazi Germany. Ben Affleck also manages to go join the RAF during the Battle of Britain in the summer of 1941 (it is not real clear again...the time is clearly summer 1941 but there were almost no daylight raids anymore) and manages to escape and return to Pearl Harbour just before the attack. There are others but the main point was it was really a romance movie set during war.

                        The best movie about Pearl Harbour was Tora! Tora! Tora! http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066473/
                        Almost a documentary, it was based on Gordon Prange's At Dawn we Slept and the special effects were not that bad either...though it had it's share of mistakes.
                        Last edited by joea; 07 Nov 06, 14:46.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by joea View Post
                          Oh there were many bad US films about WWII or other wars.

                          Well it did have good special effects (if you can overlook the modern Spruance class destroyers with their modern radar masts) most of the computer generated planes and ships are accurate enough.
                          They were excellent.

                          There are errors in the film, for example the main actors discuss the Zero vs. the P-40..."The Zeroes are faster than our P40's, but ours are more agile !" The Zero in fact was in general slower than US planes, a bit slower than the P-40...but actually more agile and manoeuvrable so the reality was the opposite!
                          Yes, it is inaccurate.

                          When the characters of Ben Affleck and Josh Harnett take part in the Doolittle bombing of Tokyo and crash in China, Ben manages to hold off a whole platoon of Japanese soldiers with a pistol.
                          I think it was possible. It was not a Japanese platoon but a squad only - :-).
                          I don't see something wrong here.

                          For me it was strange that fighter-pilots were sent as bomber-pilots.

                          Worse was the historical mistakes or lack of explanation, for example it mentions that Japan went to war because of an oil embargo from the US, but it doesn't explain why or even make clear that Japan was allied with Nazi Germany.
                          Mmm... I had no problems with it - .

                          Ben Affleck also manages to go join the RAF during the Battle of Britain in the summer of 1941 (it is not real clear again...the time is clearly summer 1941 but there were almost no daylight raids anymore) and manages to escape and return to Pearl Harbour just before the attack.
                          Mmm... RAF did daylight raids over France in summer of 1941 so air dog-fights were possible including air dog-fights over the English Channel.

                          I think it was possible to be shot down in summer over the Channel, to be transferred to occupied France, to return from there to Britain and to arrive to Pearl-Harbout by December.

                          There are others but the main point was it was really a romance movie set during war.
                          The main point was to show the Pearl-Harbour events and the Doolitle Raid.

                          Did you hear about Lt. Walch and Tailor (sorry for mistakes in spelling, I translate it from Russian)?

                          These US figher-pilots took off, shot down a few Japanese
                          planes and survived in the battle.

                          So "Pearl-Harbour"'s story is based on real events - on the story of Walch and Tailor...

                          The moviemakers added a love story but the main story is the story of those two REAL US fighter-pilots.

                          It is possible to compare mistakes and changing of real facts in "Pearl-Harbour" and in "Saving Private Ryan". I think both have approximately the same amount of errors.

                          The best movie about Pearl Harbour was Tora! Tora! Tora! http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066473/
                          Almost a documentary, it was based on Gordon Prange's At Dawn we Slept and the special effects were not that bad either...though it had it's share of mistakes.
                          I have seen it, Russian TV showed it.

                          Comment


                          • I was surprised not to find that movie in the list:
                            Oficers
                            http://www.russiandvd.com/store/prod...29&genresubid=

                            Also, here is another good one, it covers a big time period, from 1917 to after WWII, but it is good:
                            Gosudarstvennaya granitsa (8 movies)
                            http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product.asp?sku=43280
                            http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0193199/

                            Comment


                            • Hi, I'm new here

                              I run an international art house video store in Parry Sound Ontario Canada, importing a lot of foreign movies, dealing with historical themes. My favorites are east european WW2 movies.
                              I believe russian movies should be marketed with a higher profile in Canada,
                              there is a market here.
                              Veterans liked the movie Convoy PQ-17, because it dealt with canadian sailors. The same applied to Peregon, who had north american women flying
                              warplanes from alaska to siberia.
                              Despite the fact that those movies where just in russian, people rented them.
                              Here are some of my favorires:
                              1. Polumgla
                              (Fate of some german POW's)
                              http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0482567/
                              Abenteuer des Werner Holt, Die
                              (East german war flick , after the famous book.)
                              2. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057816/
                              3.Five Cartridges (german & russian volunteers in spanish civil war
                              International Brigade)
                              http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053846/

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by BrownBear View Post
                                I was surprised not to find that movie in the list:
                                Oficers
                                http://www.russiandvd.com/store/prod...29&genresubid=
                                It is #9 in my list (see message #95).

                                Also, here is another good one, it covers a big time period, from 1917 to after WWII, but it is good:
                                Gosudarstvennaya granitsa (8 movies)
                                http://www.russiandvd.com/store/product.asp?sku=43280
                                http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0193199/
                                It is #2 in my message #173.

                                Comment

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