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  • Originally posted by joea View Post
    Hey I just found the last part of this film , "The Battle of Berlin" for sale very cheap. I got it and will watch it and give you my impressions. I also plan to see the film "Flags of Our Fathers", though it will be different to compare the two, different times the films were made in, different wars (well essentially they were as WWII was almost several wars in one) though I expect both to be fairly good.

    "Flags of our fathers"... Never heard this name.

    Liberation is a really EPIC movie. The same heroes are coming to Berlin from Kursk. I don't know what impression it will give if to see the Berlin Part only.

    I also read that the Berlin part was edited to Western spectators.

    Comment


    • Hi, well I was talking about the new Clint Eastwood film about the battle of Iwo Jima, called "Flags of Our Fathers" sorry to confuse you.

      Well I think I have to get the whole epic, but it is hard out here it was the only film of the series I found. I have some mixed feelings about the film, it was published in Europe by a French company and was dubbed in French. I understand French, but HATE dubbed films as I want to hear the actor's voices. What is worse, the scenes in the bunker have the German voices with a male voice reading their lines over them...even Eva Braun's (pretty hot actress must have been East German ).

      I will say I found the film very enjoyable, the battle scenes were stupendous and fantastic. They were realistic and I loved the T-34/85s and nearly jumped when I saw an ISU-152 . I loved how the chaos of the fighting and the scale was protrayed. The way the soldiers were represented, like in one of my favorite scenes in the metro when the soldiers roll a cannon (76 mm?) down the stairs to blast a subway train used as a "pillbox" and then try to save the civilians from drowning. I wonder why it was in black and white though, I understand why the parts with Hitler and Goebbels were filmed like that but didn't think it added to the film. These scenes were not as good IMO, but then I have seen the excellent German film "Der Unterfall."

      It seemed accurate, I don't know the precise details of the Berlin Battle (which units did what) and but it seemed overall pretty correct. I am not sure if a Soviet officer really did go to the bunker after Hitler's death to set up a phone and if he talked to Goebbels? Plus I never heard that Hitler might have been shot by an SS officer after being unable to do it himself after taking poison. I also thought the part with the German pastor who was brought to try to help the German communist convince German soldiers to surrender was the most blatant propaganda in the film. The pastor was meant to show the old Germany, and gets shot by his own soldiers and the German communist the new Germany (the DDR I guess). The part at the end asking "What did Facism bring to the World?" and listing every country's losses was also a bit heavy handed, I understand they probably wanted to show how much every country, especially the USSR lost (only 20 million in the film), but I guess they hoped people would learn something.

      Overall I recommend this film but agree with Andrey that the whole series should be seen to get the most benefit. At the very least I have never seen any film about the Berlin battle from the military side (only from Hitler's bunker) especially the Soviet side and enjoyed it for that alone.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by joea View Post
        Well I think I have to get the whole epic, but it is hard out here it was the only film of the series I found. I have some mixed feelings about the film, it was published in Europe by a French company and was dubbed in French. I understand French, but HATE dubbed films as I want to hear the actor's voices. What is worse, the scenes in the bunker have the German voices with a male voice reading their lines over them...even Eva Braun's (pretty hot actress must have been East German ).
        All the German roles were played by German actors from Eastern Germany (DDR). The Germans in the movie were real Germans.

        I will say I found the film very enjoyable, the battle scenes were stupendous and fantastic. They were realistic and I loved the T-34/85s and nearly jumped when I saw an ISU-152 . I loved how the chaos of the fighting and the scale was protrayed. The way the soldiers were represented, like in one of my favorite scenes in the metro when the soldiers roll a cannon (76 mm?) down the stairs to blast a subway train used as a "pillbox" and then try to save the civilians from drowning.
        The scene in Berlin Metro was very impressive. At first Soviet soldiers came there and began to fight against German soldiers there. Suddenly water began to arrive (German command ordered to flood Metro to prevent the Soviets to come accross it). A crowd of German civilians went to Metro entrance in a panic. And Soviet and German soldiers stopped to fight and began to save German civilians. Soviet and German soldiers organized a mixed line to turn the screaming crowd in a line to let the people to go out from the Metro station. The Soviets and Germans continued to stand taking one another by the arms when the water raised to their throat...

        Also there was a scene of the fighting for Berlin Zoo. It was done by Soviet tank unit with support of Polish infantry.

        I wonder why it was in black and white though, I understand why the parts with Hitler and Goebbels were filmed like that but didn't think it added to the film. These scenes were not as good IMO, but then I have seen the excellent German film "Der Unterfall."
        In the movie the scenes of stategic level were black-white (meetings of Hitler, Stalin, Roosevelt, Churchill, the events in rears like the actions of July, 20th 1944). The combat scenes are colored.

        I am not sure if a Soviet officer really did go to the bunker after Hitler's death to set up a phone and if he talked to Goebbels?
        The movie contains a lot of funny scenes.

        In that one the German command asked to begin negotiations. Soviet command sent a signals officer to Hitler's bunker. The officer was played by Leonid Kuravlev, a famous Soviet actor. The group of German officers lead him to the bunker and went out somewhere. Suddenly he understood that he wants to ****. He couldn't speak German. He waited for some time and began to search for a toilet. The Soviet officer in Soviet uniform went accross the Hiltler's bunker and saw drunken SS-men who were drinking alcohol. He went from one room to another. Suddenly a dooor was opened and Goebbels looked at him gaspingly. The officer asked in Russian: "Excuse me, can you tell me where a toilet is?" Goeebels didn't answer anything and closed the door...

        Plus I never heard that Hitler might have been shot by an SS officer after being unable to do it himself after taking poison.
        no comment

        I also thought the part with the German pastor who was brought to try to help the German communist convince German soldiers to surrender was the most blatant propaganda in the film. The pastor was meant to show the old Germany, and gets shot by his own soldiers and the German communist the new Germany (the DDR I guess).
        It was about anti-Fascist propaganda. A German with loud-speaker spoke: "German soldiers, stop meaningless resistance!" It was not a blatant propaganda. There was a Committee "Free Germany" consisting of captured German soldiers and officers whose members tried to reduce the German casualties by the propaganda of surrender. They often were ordinary Germans and not Communists. That German was a member of that Committee. The Soviet command used widely such propaganda groups to agitate Germans to surrender. In the movie a German pastor joined voluntery to that man after he went accross streets of destroyed Berlin and saw the scale of people's grief. He began to agitate to stop meaningless fighting.

        The part at the end asking "What did Facism bring to the World?" and listing every country's losses was also a bit heavy handed, I understand they probably wanted to show how much every country, especially the USSR lost (only 20 million in the film), but I guess they hoped people would learn something.
        both your guesses are correct.

        Overall I recommend this film but agree with Andrey that the whole series should be seen to get the most benefit. At the very least I have never seen any film about the Berlin battle from the military side (only from Hitler's bunker) especially the Soviet side and enjoyed it for that alone.
        It is very sad to see a Soviet tankman who came to Berlin from Kursk and was killed during the siege of the Reichstag in the last days of the war...

        Another main hero, an artillery officer, survived in Kursk, in Dnieper crossing, in Poland but drowned in Berlin Metro saving German civilians. His girlfriend, a combat medic, fought together with him from Kursk. While everyone was celebrating the capturing of the Reichstag nearly its entrance she was moving between soldiers and officers and was asking about him. She didn't know he had died. It was very sad...

        Comment


        • I want to introduce one more excellent Soviety military movie.

          It is "В зоне особого внимания" ("V zone osobogo vnimaniia") "In a zone of special attention"

          http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078450/

          It is a legendary movie of 1978.

          It is not about WWII, it is about modern (by that time) Soviet Airborne Troops.

          In that time Airborne Troops were elite Soviet troops.

          The movie shows an episode of manoeuvres of modern Soviet troops.

          A recon group of a Soviet Airborne unit got an order to define the location of an opposing forces and to inform its headquarters about it.

          The movie shows how the recon group tried to fulfill its order and opposing ordinary infantry units tried to capture them.

          This movie became the hymn to Soviet Airborne troops.

          In the end an airdrop of an Airborne regiment is shown.

          The final song of the movie became an unofficial hymn of Airborne Troops. (see the thread about the songs)

          The Russian TV shows it practically on every August, 2nd, on the Day of Russian Airborne Troops.

          It will be very useful to Wesyterners to look on real faces of Soviet soldiers of the 70th. It differs from the one in "Rambo", "Red Rising" and so on...

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Andrey View Post
            I want to introduce one more excellent Soviety military movie.

            It is "В зоне особого внимания" ("V zone osobogo vnimaniia") "In a zone of special attention"

            http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078450/

            It is a legendary movie of 1978.

            It is not about WWII, it is about modern (by that time) Soviet Airborne Troops.

            In that time Airborne Troops were elite Soviet troops.

            The movie shows an episode of manoeuvres of modern Soviet troops.

            A recon group of a Soviet Airborne unit got an order to define the location of an opposing forces and to inform its headquarters about it.

            The movie shows how the recon group tried to fulfill its order and opposing ordinary infantry units tried to capture them.

            This movie became the hymn to Soviet Airborne troops.

            In the end an airdrop of an Airborne regiment is shown.

            The final song of the movie became an unofficial hymn of Airborne Troops. (see the thread about the songs)

            The Russian TV shows it practically on every August, 2nd, on the Day of Russian Airborne Troops.

            It will be very useful to Wesyterners to look on real faces of Soviet soldiers of the 70th. It differs from the one in "Rambo", "Red Rising" and so on...

            Download:

            В зоне особого внимания
            http://film.arjlover.net/film/v.zone....vnimanyja.avi

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DANNGOC View Post
              Download:

              В зоне особого внимания
              http://film.arjlover.net/film/v.zone....vnimanyja.avi
              Take into account this site is available for downloading for foreigners only a few hours per day
              If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

              Comment



              • http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id...?partner=amvas

                Approximate cost ~$12+shipping cost
                If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                Comment


                • Here are some more of good Soviet military movies:

                  1. “Фронт без флангов” (“Front bez flangov”), “Фронт в тылу врага” (“Front v tylu vraga”), “Фронт за линией фронта” (“Front za liniei fronta”) – “A Front without flanks”, “A Front in enemy rears” and “A Front behind of the frontline”
                  http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0071525/
                  http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0082421/
                  http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0076056/
                  I saw it in the 80th. It is about a large partisan formation. During WWII in some areas partisans were so strong that they were combined in brigades and COMPLETELY controlled large territories. In such territories Soviet rule existed like it was not in enemy rears but in non-occupied territory. In such territories children went in Soviet schools.

                  2. “Государственная граница. Год 1941” (“Gosudarstvennaia granitsa. God 1941”) “State Border, 1941” In the USSR Border Guards were considered elite troops. In 1941 they took the first blow of German troops and in many places they fought very fiercely, up to the last soldiers. In the USSR the Border Guards who fought in the Border in June 1941 armed with only their small-arms were considered heroes.
                  http://film.arjlover.net/film/gosuda....5.god41.1.avi
                  http://film.arjlover.net/film/gosuda....5.god41.2.avi

                  In the 80th the mini-TV series “State Border” was made. It is about Soviet Border Guards from 1917 till the 80th. The part “State Border, 1941” describes the actions of a Border Guards post in the Soviet-German Border in Byelorussia in June 1941. It contains two parts. Part one describes the situation right before the German invasion. Part 2 shows the fighting between the Border Guards and German troops.

                  3. “20 дней без войны” (“20 dnei bez voiny”) – “20 days without a war” It is a bout a frontline officer from Stalingrad who got a 20 days leave and who visited Tashkent. It shows well the life in Soviet rears.
                  http://film.arjlover.net/film/20.dnei.bez.voiny.avi
                  http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0074447/

                  4. “Особо важное задание” (“Osobo vazhnoe zadanie”) - “Especially important mission”
                  http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0079680/
                  This movie shows the history of IL-2 production. A group of air engineers designed IL-2. But after the beginning of the war their plant placed in the Ukraine as under the threat of German capturing. They were ordered to evacuate the plant in Omsk (my home city!) and to organize the production of IL-2 there. The movie shows how it was done.

                  5. “В небе ночные ведьмы” (“V nebe nochnye vedmy”) – “Night Witches are in the air”
                  http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0232882/
                  I don’t remember this movie exactly. I can only say it is about Soviet women-pilots of night bombers Po-2.

                  6. “Любовь земная” (“Liubov zemnaia”) – “A Love which is able to be”
                  http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0166697/
                  The movie is about the Chief of a Collective Farm and his beloved woman. They lived peacefully but the war began. The Chief joined army and went to fight. Their village nearly Moscow was captured by the Germans. His unit was encircled in Viazma, he was captured but rescued from the POW camp and organized a partisan unit nearly of his village.
                  Rem:
                  I saw it in the 80th.

                  7. “Подвиг Одессы” (“Podvig Odessy”) – “Odessa’s feat”

                  I saw it in the 80th. It is about the defence of Odessa in 1941.

                  8. “Александр-маленький” (“Alexandr malenkii”) “Alexandr-small”

                  It is Soviet-DDR movie about the relations between Soviet soldiers and German civilians right after the war.

                  A group of Soviet soldiers under the command of a young lieutenant got an order to help to a local German rules to organize peaceful life. The German rule was a pretty German girl.
                  There was an Orphan-house where there were many German children. Two boys had the same name Alexander and the youngest was Alexander-Small and the other Alexander was called Alexander-Big.

                  9. “Аллегро с огнем” (“Allegro s ognem”) – “Allegro with fire”
                  http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0312341/
                  In 1941 the Germans began to throw mines of a brand new type in the waters nearly Sevastopol. A group of Soviet specialist in mines got an order to define the exact construction of those mines and how to protect Soviet ships from them. Based on real events.

                  10. "Тегеран-43" ("Tegeran-43")
                  http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0081609/
                  http://www.russianbeat.com/v_tree.cf...E5%ED%ED%FB%E5
                  It is about how the Soviet Intelligence prevented the German attempt to kill Stalin, Roosevelt and Churchill in the Conference in Tegeran in 1943.

                  The movie was Soviet-French, and Allen Delon played in this movie.

                  11. "Берег" ("Bereg") - "Bank of a River"

                  http://www.russianbeat.com/v_tree.cf...E5%F1%EA%E8%E5

                  Based on a novel by Bondarev.

                  It is a love story of a Soviet officer and a German woman in 1945 in Germany. They met again after many years.
                  Last edited by Andrey; 05 Nov 06, 04:17.

                  Comment


                  • 9. “Аллегро с огнем” (“Allegro s ognem”) – “Allegro with fire”
                    http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0312341/
                    In 1941 the Germans began to throw mines of a brand new type in the waters nearly Sevastopol. A group of Soviet specialist in mines got an order to define the exact construction of those mines and how to protect Soviet ships from them. Based on real events.
                    I would say that real events are shown in such a key, that they had nothing with reality. I watched this movie and can claim this.
                    However, as a military movie it's not too bad (if you always remember what had happened in reality)
                    If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                    Comment


                    • One more:

                      "Корпус генерала Шубникова" "General Shubnikov's Corps"

                      http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0230423/

                      It is the Soviet/Russian view on "Operation Mars"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by amvas View Post
                        I would say that real events are shown in such a key, that they had nothing with reality. I watched this movie and can claim this.
                        However, as a military movie it's not too bad (if you always remember what had happened in reality)

                        How are my list of good movies? They are good, aren't they?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Andrey View Post
                          How are my list of good movies? They are good, aren't they?
                          THey are not too bad....
                          I even have copies some of them.
                          Some movies (for example) "Allegro s ognem", "Korpus Generala Shubnikova") are too far from reality..
                          If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by amvas View Post
                            THey are not too bad....
                            I even have copies some of them.
                            Some movies (for example) "Allegro s ognem", "Korpus Generala Shubnikova") are too far from reality..
                            As i underestand your claims to "Allegro s ognem" are limited by the fact of the fate of the destroyer that was used to help to explore the mines (was destroyed (in the movie) or survived (in reality)). Funny to suppose it a reason to speak that the movie is too far from reality.

                            "General Shubnikov's Corps" shows the actions of a fictional Mech Corps but it was based on real actions of a few real Mech Corps in "Operation Mars". Based on real facts doesn't mean to show 100% reality.

                            Moreover, it is possible to say that those movies are very far to the real events.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Andrey View Post
                              As i underestand your claims to "Allegro s ognem" are limited by the fact of the fate of the destroyer that was used to help to explore the mines (was destroyed (in the movie) or survived (in reality)). Funny to suppose it a reason to speak that the movie is too far from reality.
                              Not only...
                              All the shown events are very far from real one.
                              I'm not going to describe all episodes. But watching the movie I noticed too many fantasies of people, who wrote scenario.

                              Btw, in reality the way of exploding mines with the sound of screws of fast mine-sweeper was quite successful.

                              "General Shubnikov's Corps" shows the actions of a fictional Mech Corps but it was based on real actions of a few real Mech Corps in "Operation Mars". Based on real facts doesn't mean to show 100% reality.

                              Moreover, it is possible to say that those movies are very far to the real events.
                              I discussed this topic with my friend, who studies this operation. It was rather long ago, but he told me movie had nothing with reality.
                              Agree, nothing with reality is not equal to "less than 100% reality )


                              Alex
                              If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by amvas View Post
                                Not only...
                                All the shown events are very far from real one.
                                I'm not going to describe all episodes. But watching the movie I noticed too many fantasies of people, who wrote scenario.

                                Btw, in reality the way of exploding mines with the sound of screws of fast mine-sweeper was quite successful.
                                Do you understand what are you doing now? People will read your message and think: "No, I'll not see that movie, it is wrong."

                                You should differ the scale of non-truth. German panzers in "They fought for the Motherland" also are not those T-II and T-IV's which fought in 1942 against Soviet troops. They are T-55's with false square turrets. But it doesn't mean that the movie showed events incorrectly.

                                There are COMPLETELY fiction movies with absolutely fantastic events which are not related to reality.

                                I discussed this topic with my friend, who studies this operation. It was rather long ago, but he told me movie had nothing with reality.
                                Agree, nothing with reality is not equal to "less than 100% reality )
                                What are you talking about? About the names of the units, people or settlemets?

                                The movie shows a large scale diversionary operation when the Soviet Command sent a fresh Mech Corps to attack enemy with the mission to prevent the transferring of German troops from that place to Stalingrad. The Corps broke the German defence and went to German rears. Then the Germans cut it off. The remains of the Corps lost all the tanks and other heavy equipment but broke through enemy encirclements and joined to the main forces. But the Germans couldn't transfer troops to Stalingrad so the heavy losses of the Corps was not meaningless. Here is the idea of the movie.
                                And such things occurred a few times during "Operation Mars".

                                Comment

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