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  • Originally posted by amvas
    "Oni Srazhalis' za Rodinu" (They fought for the Motherland) - a masterpiece forever!

    regards,
    Alex
    Hell ya, this film is on my personal "best favorite war films from all countries" ever.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by DANNGOC
      Agree Amvas .... But Soviet-period movies are usually not good as the original novels.
      Strongly disagree. It depended from the actors, the scenario and the director.

      For example, "They fought for the Motherland" contained a few Soviet stars of the scale of Tom Hanks and Jhonny Depp.

      Those were:
      Vasilii Shukshin,
      Viacheslav Tikhonov,
      Georgii Burkov,
      Iurii Nikulin,
      Nikolai Gubenko,
      Sergei Bondarchuk,
      Lidiia Fedoseeva-Shukshina,
      Nonna Mordiukova

      There were also some other known actors.

      It is only one example. Usually there are 1-2 stars in a Hollywood movie, the other actors are not well-known. The Soviet moviemakers often used many stars in one movie.

      The Soviet moviemakers used music very well. Sometimes the music was so great and so corresponded to the moments that a spectator felt tingles down his spine or tears.

      The best examples of the excellent music are "Liberation", "They fought for the Motherland", "Hot Snow" and so on.

      For example, in the "Hot Snow" in the last scene the Soviet general was moved by foot accross the battlefield. Those were the positions of the fresh Soviet troops who had fought there yeasterday against the Germans who were rushing to Stalingrad. All the field was full of broken Soviet guns, semi-ruinous trenches, burning German tanks and corpses of Soviet and German soldiers. The general's adjutant spoke to him: "There are not any alive, there are only dead". But the general spoke: "Search! Some alive have to be here! We saw that at least one gun was shooting today from somewhere here." His adjutant run between destroyed tanks and broken guns but the general moved slowly leaning upon a stick. Here the general stopped near of a huge destroyed "Tiger", leaned upon it and wiped his face with a handkerchief. Suddenly his adjutant shouted: "There are alive, there are a lot of alive!" The general came to a safe gun. About 8-10 men were sitting nearly of it and stood after the general had approached. Those were the survived soldiers and officers who had gathered around one safe gun and were shooting at the morning from the positions which Germans had supposed to be destroyed. The general approached to them and gave to everyone an award. He was going from one to the other and spoke "It is all what I can do for you! The most important thing was to destroy their tanks. It is all what I can do for you!"

      For all the scene one music was played again and again. The influence was great... I doubt it is possible to reproduce it on book pages.

      Also the Soviet moviemakers could use Soviet Army during the shooting.

      Usually there was something like this in the cue of the movie: "Troops of Leningrad and Kiev Military Districts took part in the shooting of the movie."

      In reality it meant that the battle scenes were huges often.

      For example, in "Liberation" there were scenes of large tank battles. In one episode all the field up to the horizon was full of advancing waves of German tanks and lines of German infantry that were approaching to the positions of Soviet infanytry and AT-artillery. In another scere two masses of tanks clashed: Soviet and German. Soviet and German tankmen from destroyed tanks fought against one another between burning and moving tanks.

      Comment


      • Oh, I cannot forget the feelings when I read "Goriachi Sneg" and "Bereg" of Yurii Bondarev. In the movie I havenot. Soviet movie take close-step to original script but cannot show the meaning between the words.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by DANNGOC
          Oh, I cannot forget the feelings when I read "Goriachi Sneg" and "Bereg" of Yurii Bondarev. In the movie I havenot. Soviet movie take close-step to original script but cannot show the meaning between the words.
          Do you remember the episode of "Hot Snow" that I described? What was your feeling when you had seen it?

          Comment


          • Oh Andrei, it is hard to explain about one's feelings, but Soviet movies is always under heavy sensorship and have some propaganda... exspecially war movies.

            When I read "Hot Snow" (Maybe "Burned Snow" OK?), I think about human and humanity, about my life, about life and dead, ... not only the war (The way Bondarev portraited Kuznesov-Drozdovski-Zoia, Bessonov-Vesnin and other characters behave IN THE WAR). And those feelings take shapes between the script, not in the last moment. I think it is the unique russian way of the author.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DANNGOC
              Oh Andrei, it is hard to explain about one's feelings, but Soviet movies is always under heavy sensorship and have some propaganda... exspecially war movies.
              About censorship - it depended from a director of the movie. Some fought against censorship.

              and i don't speak "Look all the Soviet movies". I made the list of the best.

              When I read "Hot Snow" (Maybe "Burned Snow" OK?), I think about human and humanity, about my life, about life and dead, ... not only the war (The way Bondarev portraited Kuznesov-Drozdovski-Zoia, Bessonov-Vesnin and other characters behave IN THE WAR). And those feelings take shapes between the script, not in the last moment. I think it is the unique russian way of the author.
              You want too much from a military movie. A military movie is made to show the war actions at first and to do it as correct and as interesting as possible.

              About "hot/burning snow". The Russian name of the movie is "Горячий снег" ("Goriachii sneg"). Russian "goriachii"="hot". English "burning" = Russian (Горящий) "goriashchii". The difference is in ONE Russian letter. So the correct version is "Hot Snow".

              Comment


              • http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0416111/

                ‘Peregon’ (‘Driving’). This is a brand new movie by Alexander Rogozhkin who made “Coo-coo” earlier.

                Rogozhkin is famous as a comedy maker. So when I saw the movie first time I was waiting for a comedy. But it was not a comedy (it had some funny moments but their amount is not enough to let to call it a comedy) so I was dissappointed. But then I thought about my impressions and I understood that the movie had a lot of charm.

                During WWII the USA sent planes to the USSR. Some of the planes flew to the USSR on their own. A net of intermediate airfields was organized in undeveloped areas of the USSR from Chukotka, the territory that was closest to Alyaska, to the Urals. Some pilots used to drive the planes from their airfield to the next one, then they used to return on their airfield and were waiting for a new party of planes from the previous airfield.

                The movie describes the life on one of such airfields in Chukotka. That was the first airfield of the airfield net. American pilots used to drive there ‘Aircobras’ from Alyaska and then Soviet pilots used to drive them to the West, to the next airfield inside of the USSR.

                The Soviet pilots who operated from the airfield were young guys. In the beginning of the movie the twelve young pilots were waiting for the planes and were looking how the American pilots were landing on those planes. Suddenly it turned out that all the twelve American pilots were young pretty girls. Then those guys and girls used to meet again and again in the airfield.

                But the movie is not only about those pilots. The movie is about the life on the airfield. The movie has got no main hero.

                Also the image of the Americans is very good in the movie. The Soviet and Americans behaved to one another as friends. The Americans were played by American actors. And the “Aircobras” are looked real. Sometimes soft American music of the 40th plays and it attaches very good atmosphere to the movie scenes. The Russian DVD I bought has got English subtitles.

                So I RECOMMEND to everyone to buy this movie. It is really good movie and it stands out against a background of the stream of the mediocre modern Russian military movies that have been produced in the last years.

                Comment


                • They said about "Peregon" :

                  A Czech:
                  http://www.blisty.cz/art/29292.html

                  And a Lithuanian:
                  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0416111/

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by DANNGOC
                    They said about "Peregon" :

                    A Czech:
                    http://www.blisty.cz/art/29292.html

                    I have got a few comments to this, as I suppose that the Czech didn't understand everything correctly.

                    "As part of Karlovy Vary's main competition, on Thursday was shown Aleksandr Rogozkin's new film Peregon (Tranzit, Rusko 2006). He presented it as a 'kino-roman', an onscreen novel intended to ally itself with the tradition of classical literature, that is, with its interest in individuality and singularity. Indeed, this film is more of a study of humanity than a historical-political treatment of a particular period of time.

                    As the filmmakers introduced the film, they stressed the importance of character in the work. Editor Julija Rumjanceva reassured us with the comment that, yes, the film is long at 146min, but when it was shown in Russia, the audience was so involved with the characters that they felt it in fact to be much shorter. And I have to admit, I did quite agree with this. As Rogozkin told us, there are 36 characters in the film ("and I do not want to differentiate between main and supporting roles"), and we do feel involved with almost all of these. Peregon relates the lives and relations of people living on an isolated military base in Chukotka, Siberia. It is set in the winter of 1942-43, and shows the coming and goings of Russian and American pilots who are flying lend-lease planes from Alaska to Chukotka and then on to the Russian front. The main focus, though, is on the characters against this context. Much to everyone's surprise, the pilots who bring the planes from Alaska are in fact all women - which is much to the delight of the young pilots.

                    This situation provides for the first side of Rogozkin's portrayal of individual affairs. As would be expected, this herd of young men jumps at the sight of twelve young accomplished ladies marching into their base.
                    Approximately correct.

                    They are ordered to entertain them somehow, and so put on a foxtrot, and dance with them, trying to woo them by talking at them in Russian (and then attempting to learn English).
                    The commissar of the base saw that the American ladies were standing and were doing nothing and ordered to his mate "to entertain the Allies somehow" and the sergeant organized dances in which the Soviet pilots took part.

                    And inevitably, some of them form quite an attachment to their chosen amerikanka. The superiors of course take a dislike to this and either make fun of the boys, or create rules which are meant to prevent the two groups from meeting. Emotional attachments have no place in a military base. But actually they are extremely prevalent here - "oh how complicated it is here", says the investigator when he comes to inspect the base following the death of base commander Foma Ilijic. Be it romantic entanglements - we find out that Irina, the interpreter, is the estranged wife of Foma, and is now involved with Sergei Mikhailovic, and Foma in turn has been involved with cook Valja who is now carrying his child - or simply the expression of personal delights - the new cook Roman asks the pilots to bring him a hog from Alaska so that he can feed them fresh meat, and instead is brought a piglet, to whom several of the people on the base get quite attached, before he is sent away with the Americans because obstreperous Foma does not like it. Similarly, the young Chukotian helper Vasilij's jokes and nonsense are charming and certainly not helpful towards any war efforts. While all the work goes on, only unsympathetic characters such as the investigator or the raving Foma Ilijic talk about the main front. Of course, all of them are working conscientiously as they should, but most of them have other things at the forefront of their minds. Rogozkin is successful in his effort to make us relate with the characters of his 'kino-roman' as indeed we do care about what is going on in this base. He uses humour and a light touch, gradually revealing details about the characters, which presents them to us in a natural way, and allows us to become involved in their lives. Consequently, he does indeed create a work which gestures back to the traditions of 19th century literature with its realist and detailed treatment of character. We see in this film as we do in that literature the following theme - the individual vs. greater powers. Most of the characters' individual desires are squashed by some or other larger force: the pilot's attempts at wooing are stopped either by their superiors or by plane crashes, the beloved piglet is sent away by the officers, Roman's attempts to introduce higher culinary creations are met with bemusement or the declaration that they are 'fascist' (he bakes Berlinskż Strudel..) and when Vasilij's dream of becoming a pilot is fulfilled, he is killed in battle.
                    The story of the piglet is distorted. I do not want to describe it as I think it will be interesting for you to see it yourselves.

                    Now, the film is also a meeting of cultures - the cooperation of Russian and American forces in the war effort. However, the Americans in this film come off quite flatly. All the Russians in the film have great dreams and emotions, but never do we see any of the Americans show any feeling. In military dealings they show an appropriate level of respect, but the amerikanki hardly show any warmth towards the Russians that so genuinely court them; they make fun of Russian traditions, "we've toasted everyone but the dog!"; and the American officer supervising the checking of the planes is depicted as less than thorough. The Russian officers also say, "America is a rich country - they can afford to feed the pig, give it to them." As often is the case in Russia (though not always), Americans are seen as gleaming ambassadors of a rich state, rather than individuals.

                    I disagree.

                    Those of the American ladies, who became the subjects of courting of a few Soviet pilots, behaved like they liked those young Soviet guys. They talked to them like to a pretty American guys. One of the girls even presented her photo to the Soviet pilot. But their later relations were cut by extermal forces.

                    The americans were shown very well.

                    The story of the piglet is distroted again - :-).

                    Rogozkin's film is strong, the isolation of the setting makes us concentrate on the dealings of its characters, and the director is successful in his aim of portraying the nature of human endeavour, and its conflict with more powerful figures (after all, it is set in the Stalinist USSR) or greater forces. And this is all done very much in the Russian style.
                    OK.

                    And a Lithuanian:
                    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0416111/

                    I saw this flick yesterday and I was awed by the flaws of it.Later Russian films tend to be more sufficient,modern with better actors,bigger budget and less Russian propaganda.This here thing has followed the steps of cheap Hollywood filmmakers,with their leader in front - Uwe Boll.Peregon really reminds of some off Uwe's masterpieces.Throughout the movie,nothing happens.I mean NOTHING.Some guy gets drunk,chases a woman,then again the same.It's kinda comical.Then there's the drama for all you romance lovers,but you cant really make out who loves who.There is some action in Peregon,really,cross my heart...about 8 minutes of flying planes.What a crock,I wasted two hours of my life,just to go to sleep at 1 AM in the morning and haven't seen a single scene which I liked.So if you kept reading and didn't get it - try to avoid this "masterpiece".
                    It may be looked strange but I 80% agree with it.

                    It is aprroximately equal to my FIRST impression.

                    But then I began to recall the movie and to see it again and the more I did it the more I liked it.

                    The movie has indeed got a great charm.

                    Comment


                    • I will watch it. I like Rogozkin's film "Cuckoo".

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DANNGOC
                        I will watch it. I like Rogozkin's film "Cuckoo".
                        "Cuckoo" is a clear comedy.

                        "Peregon" is a serious movie. I suppose it is what you tried to find in "Goriachii sneg"...

                        Comment


                        • I bought 'Come and See' for 30 Euros a few weeks ago.

                          I saw some of it on TV a good few years ago and it was well...bloody!

                          Would it be considered among the best WWII Films?
                          http://www.irelandinhistory.blogspot.ie/

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Wolfe Tone
                            I bought 'Come and See' for 30 Euros a few weeks ago.

                            I saw some of it on TV a good few years ago and it was well...bloody!

                            Would it be considered among the best WWII Films?
                            It is in my list - :-).

                            Also I want to say that Russian TV doesn't show it. I saw it last time about 15 years ago.

                            It is too bloody movie. And it is shocking. And it is great. A Westerner will sense what to be a partisan and to live in an occupied territory in Byelorussia meant.
                            Last edited by Andrey; 11 Aug 06, 21:09.

                            Comment


                            • "Come and See" - they show it on TV, well I saw it on TV in 1997 when I was in Russia. I was really not in the mood for it so I couldn't stomach finishing the whole thing, it just happened to be on.

                              I just watched Cross of Iron today for the first time. Impressive, I didn't think it would be as violent as it was!

                              Comment


                              • I don't think "Cross of Iron" is a good film about WW2 in Eastern front.

                                "Cross of Iron" may be a Eastern-front version of "All quiet in Western Front" of Eric Maria Remarque, but I think war in Eastern front between Nazi-German and USSR is quite different.

                                About "All quiet in Western Front": In my opinion, some details in "Stalingrad" (GDR, 1992) may be inspired from that novel.

                                Comment

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