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  • TO&E Regiments and Battalions

    Hi,
    I've have looked all over the web and all over the print resources I have available to me and I cannot find TO&E for independant Regiment and Battalion sized Soviet WW2 units other than Tank and SU units. I have those.

    I have all the information I could ever ask for with units over Regiment size. It's been a 12 month search and I have run out of places to look. I've gone as far as looking at what different games have and there is so much disagreement among them. For instance, the same engineer regiment at the same date is vastly different in three different scenarios. I can only assume this is so because no one really knows what these units contained. But that cannot be so. This information must be some place.

    Does anyone know of a website with this information? Also TO&E about Fortress Region units.

    Forgot, I have all the Regimental Artillery TO&E also.

    Regards,
    Panama
    Last edited by Panama13; 21 Aug 10, 13:59.

  • #2
    Part of the problem I think, is that for the most part you are looking for sub units that did not exist or were formed in very low numbers. If needed, regiment and battalion sized units would be detached from higher level formations. That is unless they were special Engineer, Construction, Commutation…etc independent units.


    For example:
    From Red Army Handbook 1939-45 Steven J. Zaloga & Leland S. Ness, 1998 p.viii

    Number of
    Separate Rifle Regiments
    June 1941 - 1
    Jan 1942 - 13
    July 1942 - 8
    Jan 1943 - 7
    July 1943 - 6
    Jan 1944 - 10
    July 1944 - 10
    Jan 1945 - 8
    May 1945 - 5

    Fortified Regions
    June 1941 - 57
    Jan 1942 - 19
    July 1942 - 53
    Jan 1943 - 45
    July 1943 - 45
    Jan 1944 - 48
    July 1944 - 47
    Jan 1945 - 47
    May 1945 - 47

    Ski Batt
    June 1941 - 0
    Jan 1942 - 85
    July 1942 - 25
    Jan 1943 - 0
    July 1943 - 0
    Jan 1944 - 0
    July 1944 - 0
    Jan 1945 - 0
    May 1945 - 0

    Separate Cavalry Reg
    June 1941 - 0
    Jan 1942 - 7
    July 1942 - 5
    Jan 1943 - 5
    July 1943 - 0
    Jan 1944 - 0
    July 1944 - 0
    Jan 1945 - 1
    May 1945 - 1

    As you can see, the only one formed in any number and lasting the entire war were the Fortified Regions.

    So unless you have very specific examples, I would use strength and TO&E from Regiments and Battalions that were detached from parent formations. Of course, the strength and makeup of these subunits would vary wildly depending upon the date and local situation.

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes, it's obvious if I have division TO&E that I have the proper ones for Rifle, Cavalry, Destroyer, etc.

      Fortified Regions were comprised of Machine gun-Artillery battalions yes? That would be a large number of battalions. Engineers and AAA would be numerous also.

      However, I'm not concerned about how many of what unit type was present when. Just the standard TO&E for the units. Every unit type would have a standard TO&E (Shtat). The particular unit number is not important because it would never be the same equipment from month to month.

      All I need is the Shtat or TO&E but I cannot find these.

      Thanks for your reply.

      Comment


      • #4
        Fortified Regions

        Yes, you are correct the FRs were mostly composed of Machine gun-Artillery battalions, of variable number. I also can not find a standard TO&E for these units. There is a note (from the above book) that indicates there were an average of 6 battalions per FR during 43-45.

        In march 1942, a FR was composed of an 85 man HQ, and several 667 man Machine gun-Artillery battalions. These battalions had light and heavy MGs, 50mm & 80mm mortars, 45mm AT guns and 76mm field guns.

        I hope this helps.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes, very helpful. It seems the various scenario designers don't have a good handle on what the various FR comprised of also. I've seen them with a host of artillery all the way up to the 203mm Howitzers and I was sure that couldn't be correct. There just weren't that many of those pieces around to equip all of those units in that way.

          What is frustrating for me about the Machine Gun-Artillery units is that I've seen them someplace before. Darned if I can relocate the site I saw them at.

          Comment


          • #6
            Greetings,

            Glad I could help.

            I think you should post your question on the axishistory.com site. Our Russian friends their may be able to help more then I can.

            Also check out the Quickmaneuvers.com web site. They have an EBook about Soviet Fortifications that cover FRs, at least during the early part of the war.

            Again you are correct, FRs were economy of force units, designed to cover sections of the front and flanks with MG and AT weapons with little or no infantry support....so no 203mm Howitzers...lol.

            I can post the TO&E of a 1943 Machine gun artillery battalion, if needed.

            Comment

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