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  • BarcelonaBlom
    replied
    Sorry I have MANY MANY questions and I need to organize them out or I'll be asking for information on things in general.

    As I say there is no greater research tool than the source itself... in this case you... who happens to be Russian.

    I'll try to get my questions organized and ask you about certain things about life at the time in Russia.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    *So no one volunteers? They just drafted you if the time was right? I actually was going to get rid of that part and make him older.

    In peaceful time – yes.

    Man who served in Army earlier and has military specialty can be volunteer (in some conditions)

    Or man could stay in Army when time of his draft was over.

    *Okay so NO volunteers early. Okay I can adjust him to join during the Finnish War then right?

    As I know Red Army asked volunteers in time of Finnish War. But it was about men with ski training and not far from battle region only not about untrained young boys.

    * But, could you explain the komsomol a little more... its an interesting concept.

    What do you want to know?

    >>>If this guy was young so he couldn't be Communist.

    *Interesting to the age thing again... I might have to write the book's writers and let them know about some of this.

    Usually only very good people became Party members in young age. They have to be example for others. As I know there was 21 year restriction (I asked in work 50-years woman who was not too little in Communist times (I was only pioneer) and she answered it but she was not sure)

    *This is the reason he dislikes him. This character's family was and still is a working class family. They were the ones that the Revolution was meant to benefit. Instead they are about in the same spot as before and the other character's family who was aristocratic has gotten more benefits somehow.

    You use US situation for Russian conditions, you describe US problems of some parts of US soldiers in WWII time. In US if your family is poor so it is difficult to get success in life so many guys thought about it. In USSR there was no too difference between people and ANYONE had possibility to become everyone. Education was FREE. If you didn’t get good education and success in life so it was your blame not blame of your poor family. Son of poor men could become a Great general or scientist without problems. Schools in USSR were relatively equal in most parts of country. Moreover, if you were son of peasant or worker you had advantage in getting Higher Education. Also there was rule to develop backward regions so there was rule to give advantages to representatives of these regions.

    And aristocratic parents were VERY large problems for their children (they were representatives of “exploiters” class). Moreover, children of workers were proud that they were representatives of “working class” which was considered most progressive class of society.

    *Interesting... If you "brain-wash" them before they get older you eliminate dissent. So that means technically the Moore's Theory of "Utopia" (NO government is perfect because when the human factor is added in it falls apart) can't happen since the only way it can is if the people realize, but they can't since it is engrained that they are doing the good thing.

    There are not only Soviet but RUSSIAN features of Russian people. In USSR and Russia interests of society were higher than interests of individual.

    And those things which are bad for US are good according Russian view. US rules of life are not truth for other peoples, we also suppose that some US things are bad. For example, you suppose that it is indication of freedom to place legs on table, we suppose that it is indication of lack of respect to other people in room. If American will suffer in concrete conditions it doesn’t mean that Russian will suffer in these conditions and vice versa. Do not use US rules for other peoples.

    And if people had no dissent so it was problem only if they understood that it was bad.

    *I knew that. I don't know why though.. Morale?

    Vodka in frontline was against frost and stress.

    What do you want from me? Ask concretely.

    As I suppose your images are wrong. It looks like Russians were able only to drink alcohol or to be Communists or anti-Communists. But I do not know reasons of your “image making” and what did you want to get...

    Leave a comment:


  • BarcelonaBlom
    replied
    In case you miss them my comments are the ones with the * in front. I tried to keep everything whole on the 2nd Part but I was over the character limit so I had to get rid of some non-essential sentences.

    Leave a comment:


  • BarcelonaBlom
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrey
    Part 2
    "Order of the Red Star" is very large reward.

    "Russo-Finnish war of 1939-40" in USSR was called "Finnish War".

    *Okay

    What is the nonsense about Red Army!!! Natural Born Leaders had enough chances to get new rank or post in Red Army. In the time of war some good sergeants even got officers ranks without Univercity Education, most part was sent in Military Colleges.

    In Red Army any soldier could to write statement and to ask command to send his in military college.

    *It is a quirk... He just can't realise the potential or acknowledge it and it is an obstacle he has to overcome.

    All other young guys were under Soviet propaganda and believed in this propaganda slogans (it was not bad often but good like "to be ready to protect Motherland", "to be ready to be useful for country" and so on)

    In USSR most part of boys and girls in age from 10 to 16 were pioneers. Pioneers were like US scouts but with some political influence. They were considered young assistants of Party. It meant to help in development of country, to decrease illiteracy, to help for old people, to popularize different ideas, to prepare "to work and defense of Motherland"

    From 16 to 27 year youth could join to "komsomol" - "Communist Union of Youth". They helped to Party in more scale.

    And only later they could become Communists but in some cases guys before 27 year age also could become Communists.

    Before war youth prepared to service in Army very actively - they in mass amounts prepared to be snipers (good shooters got special sign "Voroshilovskiy strelok" ("Shooter of Voroshilov") because Marshal Voroshilov, Hero of Civil War, was considered sniper), they in mass amounts jumped with parachutes and flew in planes.

    It was not so easy to join to komsomol or to Communist Party.

    There were local komsomol and party organizations in plants, collective farms, military units and so on. Any local organization had leader - "komsorg" (shortly "komsomol'skiy organizator"("komsomol organizer"))or "partorg" shortly "partiynyy organizator"("party organizer")). These leaders were elected by local organization and approved by higher organization.

    If anyone wanted to join to komsomol or party he had to write statement and to ask to join his. Local organization met with him and decided this question. If anyone tried to join to party he had to be "candidate to member of party" for some time and if he was good for this time he became "member of party".

    In Army young Natural Born leaders- not officers usually were "komsorgs" (they usually were not officers but soldiers or sergeants).

    Komsomol members usually were more unselfish.

    To be komsomol or party member was reason to be better than usual soldiers and officers. In case of difficult attacks there was frequent slogan "Communists and komsomol members have to go in first lines"

    But commonly Communists were usual men which are more active and pushing.

    So I do not believe that this guy was not enthusiast of
    Communism.

    In that time nobody knew truth about GULAG and innocent victims, all youth supposed that Soviet Union is best place in World, that NKVD sent in prisons only real enemies of Soviet Power, that Stalin is best leader.

    *Okay I can change that. But, could you explain the komsomol a little more... its an interesting concept.

    *By the way You are a victim of Eastern propaganda :P
    The British had the Scouts first and the idea came over here. I find it interesting that everyone (even here in the US!) thinks that Scouts is an American thing when the British gave us the idea. I do despise some people here acting like we are the... for lack of better words "Belle of the Ball" if you know what i mean...

    >>By the way his father and grandfather were heroic members of the Tsarist Army during WWI and the Revolution though the government has yet to find that link.

    It is not correct. In USSR Tsarist Army was not considered heroic, nobody advertised that his relatives fought in Tsarist Army in WWI excluding cases when these relatives were simple soldiers or sergeants and made really heroic things.

    *He really doesn't know and doesn't want to know since it could get him in a bit of trouble.

    And I didn't understand about Revolution. It was important what did relatives do during Civil War.

    *Oops was going to get rid of that. Thats my mistake.

    Efreitor (Lance Corporal) Pavel Malenkov:

    It is real parody on fanatic Communist - :-).

    *Its meant to be. A combination between the Nazi Julius Heide from Sven Hassel's books and the tank commander in The Beast of War except his fanaticism isn't professional (job-related) it is political (and quite cliche like you said).

    Commissars were officers in rank not less than leitenant in Army equivalent. Only guys with civilian Higher education or students of special Military Colleges could become commissars.

    Who is NKVD officer in your opinion? "NKVD" means "Ministry of Internal Affairs" and it means police and secret service. So to be NKVD officer was equal to be rear troops officer. But most part of Communists wanted to fight against invaders in front not to maintain order in rear.

    *Either one. He wants to be trained as such when he gets of age.

    If this guy was young so he couldn't be Communist.

    *Interesting to the age thing again... I might have to write the book's writers and let them know about some of this.

    Usually guys with leaders abilities quickly got junior command ranks (from mladshiy sergeant and higher). He was only efreitor.
    You described concretly bad guy.

    *He THINKS he's a leader but he is really not so he makes bad choices that he thinks are helping or are good when they are making the situation worse.

    Krasnoarmeets (Private) Mishin Pachenko:
    >He enlisted in the Army as soon as he could to get away from it all.

    Guys were drafted because their age became enough or because they were volunteers and wanted to defend Motherland. There were no soldiers-volunteers before war.

    >He decided to be a tank gunner and found it was something he was quite good at.

    In Red Army soldiers didn't decide what military specialty to get. Red Army decided where any concrete soldier will be useful. So usually nobody asked soldier about his wishes, sometimes it was dome when there were some possible variants of using of any concrete soldier.

    It is nonsense, no one young men could hate other man because this man was too hard Communist views. And I understood your words so that Malenkov had aristocratic relatives!!! It was very bad for Communists and komsomol members to have aristocratic relatives... It was very difficult to become commissar in this case.

    >Mishin’s family is what The Cause IS supposed to be about.

    I didn't understand it.

    *This is the reason he dislikes him. This character's family was and still is a working class family. They were the ones that the Revolution was meant to benefit. Instead they are about in the same spot as before and the other character's family who was aristocratic has gotten more benefits somehow.

    >He secretly hates modern Communism because of its corruption and loss of identity of what it is supposed to be, though he takes a neutral to slightly pro- stance in public.

    Ha-ha. It was absolutely impossible. If people especially young saw corruption they supposed that it was blame of some concrete men not blame of system. "Loss of identity" - it is nonsense. Soviet people get accustomed to live as part of collective, they supposed that it is OK when every man or woman is part of society. In USSR one people helped to other ones, it was OK, every men and women destination was to help to other people. And often it was good.


    *Interesting... If you "brain-wash" them before they get older you elminate dissent. So that means technically the Moore's Theory of "Utopia" (NO government is perfect because when the human factor is added in it falls apart) can't happen since the only way it can is if the people realise, but they can't since it is engrained that they are doing the good thing.

    1. In front everyone every day got 100 grammes of vodka - "narkomovskiye 100 gramm" ("There was such order of Narkom (minister) of Defense to do it in time of Finnish War").

    *I knew that. I don't know why though.. Morale?

    So there was no necessity to drink brake fluid.

    2. It was difficult for young guy to be alcoholic, he was too young.

    *Sadly, I know too many people who were alcoholic at a young age. And he is truly convinced this makes him better at what he does.

    3. Crew lived together in tank or blindage as one family so it was difficult to drink many alcohol in secret from other crewmen and from commanders. If concrete soldier drank too many so his commander or local komsomol and party organizations could make many efforts to prevent it.

    *Exactly why its tough on him.

    4. Best gunner of regiment can not be alcoholic. He is under constant supervision because he has to be example for other soldiers.

    *Making it even harder. He can't drink at all in front of them and he can't drink much in private. Essentially its a "Welcome to the Army" type of thing for him and his alcohol has no place in it.

    5. It was real suicide to come in combat with gunner-alcoholic.

    *Yes it is.

    Krasnoarmeets (Private) Alex Runerin:

    >orig text

    He had no place in T-34.



    I do not understand why does he hate Malenkov?

    *He can't think for himself and only does what others tell him. He knows he has to follow the commander since he is the commander and that he is friends with the gunner. They both slightly dislike the man because of the way he acts. This can't be realted to just Communism it can happen in our army as well. Someone that thinks they know it all is the right term. He thinks he knows what to do when he really doesn't.

    Leave a comment:


  • BarcelonaBlom
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrey
    Part 1



    Remarks of Andrey:

    I read it and it is clear for me that you are one more victim of Western propaganda - :-).

    *LOL Maybe... I've studied the Russian Soldier but not much about what their "homelife" would be like.... I don't care much for political study thats why the required class "American Government" is going to kill me... I hate studying politics and I already know how my government works so they should leave me alone!!!

    1. "Mladishy" is wrong, "mladshiy" is correct.

    *Spelled it wrong.

    2. There was no Soviet Army in that time, there was Red Army.

    *Thought so...

    3. T-34 in start of war had 3 men crew - mechanic-driver, gun loader, commander of tank (he also was gunlayer). If you want to have 4 men in crew you have to replace T-34 by KV (as I remember KV had 4 men in crew).

    *Okay. My dad told me Commanders could either be Loader or Gunner, he said he has read accounts of both with another crewman filling the missing spot.

    4. There are no names Alex and Mishin.
    There is name Alexey, for friends and relatives - Aliosha.
    There is name Mikhail, for friends and relatives - Misha.
    Also Pavel for friends and relatives is Pasha.

    5. Valenkov, Malenkov - these names are two similar. You can use Petrov, Mikhailov, Kuznetsov names, these names are frequent (I can say you thousands of frequent Russian names - ;-))

    Pachenko... Panchenko is better. Or Pashchenko. Or Pashenko.

    Runerin... Strange name but it is possible.

    *Well.... Like I said in previous posting... I'm horrible and they'd all be named after generals and famous people or cliche ones that you always hear... Mikhail, Alexey, and names like that.

    6. You often speak about bad life in USSR. In USSR there was hunger in start of 30th but then life was relatively good not like in USA in time of Great Depression when some guys joined to Army for saving their lifes. in USSR society helped for those society members who had no enough food so there was no hunger and bad life.

    Anyone young boy or girl could get any education, it was free especially for children of peasants and workers.

    *Still I think regardless of national situation that some families are going to live in the poor quarters of cities... They are always there. No matter how high a standard of living is there is always a bottom low and some people who come from those dredges are really good people and the rest are questionable. 2 Members had it a bit rough, 2 had a normal life.

    7. There was term discipline. You can hate your commander but he is your commander. (Your commander has to be very bad for being target of such hatred).

    One crew, 4 young men, one is fanatic Communist, two do not like Communists, one doesn't like that crewman who is fanatic Communist.

    Where did you find so strange anti-Soviet crew?

    In your example crew is full of intrigues, even hatred from one to other.

    It is very strange.

    *It's meant as a device to incur interaction amongst the players they are going to be inserting themselves into their role and I want to see them interact like that. It is a bit extreme yes but thats because my players can't play anything subtle. Me I am a good actor and can slide into anything but for now I have to go to extremes to get anything out of my players since all but 2 are not good actors.

    Crews of tanks understood that they have to operate like one united mechanism; mistake of one will be reason of death of all. In such conditions to begin intrigues and hatred is not good idea, it is more correct to achieve harmony in work with battle comrades.

    *Agreed.

    In real life crews of tanks were not so political excited. Imagine that you will have to fight in one tank with three other usual man (u-s-u-a-l !!!). What will be your problems with them?

    *They are usual... I wasn't trying to make politcs the edge but I used it as a start. They can find what the other characters have that they as the character would not like or would like and exploit that. But once again my group is very very idiotic I should say and they may never get into the role as heavily as they should.


    OK, let's speak in order

    Mladishy Serzhant (Juniot Sergeant) Andrey Valenkov:

    >Andrey enlisted into the Soviet Army in 1938, he lied about his age in order to join and make a living.

    You do not understand draft system. In any "rayon" (part of town or group of villages) there is "military commissariat" under command of "military commissar". These commissariats gathered information about possible enlisted soldiers and draft recruits when young men get draft age. When boy come in school, school gives data in local "military commissariat" about this boy. When guys come in "military commissariat" they have documents where their age is written, nobody will draft soldier without documents.

    So...

    1. It was very difficult "to deceive" "military commissariat" about your age. Yes, it was possible to do in time of war where there was large confusion and nobody checked age correctly. But you speak about 1938...

    *So no one volunteers? They just drafted you if the time was right? I actually was going to get rid of that part and make him older.

    2. I doubt that Red Army drafted volunteers in 1938. Red Army did it in time of war but not in 1938. If guy came in "military commissariat" in 1938 and said that he wanted to join Red Army so workers of "military commissariat" could say to him "You are too young and have to grow up. In any case we remember about you, if Motherland will need you we will draft you, go home, prepare to service and wait" or send his in military college. But he couldn't go in Army as soldier-volunteer in that time.

    *Okay so NO volunteers early. Okay I can adjust him to join during the Finnish War then right?
    To be continued...

    Leave a comment:


  • BarcelonaBlom
    replied
    Originally posted by joea
    Interesting thread Andrey and Barcelona. This is exactly what I came here for, there is so little information on the inner social life of the Red Army. Yiou are correct that in the West there is an image of a highly political organisation, wheras what you seem to imply is that they really had more in common with soldiers of other nations after all. I alos gather the "negative" aspects of commisars were manifest at the beginning more than the end. I mean making bad decisions, laeter they let the more military officers do their job and they did theirs.
    Regardless and I think I see where it shows is that this crew is very very unstable though a lot of Andrey's suggestions I am taking to heart and I thank him for clearing things up. What I am aiming for IS a tank crew that is very different and they are going to interact in different ways... there is time for change especially considering the Germans are going to be roaring across the border.



    About names... if you Russian names to me everyone would be named Zhukov, Vladimir, Vassili, Joseph, Zaitsev, Misha, Sacha etc. I think you get the picture...

    Leave a comment:


  • joea
    replied
    Interesting thread Andrey and Barcelona. This is exactly what I came here for, there is so little information on the inner social life of the Red Army. Yiou are correct that in the West there is an image of a highly political organisation, wheras what you seem to imply is that they really had more in common with soldiers of other nations after all. I alos gather the "negative" aspects of commisars were manifest at the beginning more than the end. I mean making bad decisions, laeter they let the more military officers do their job and they did theirs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    Part 2

    >He served during the Russo-Finnish war and earned an Order of the Red Star and a promotion because of his actions there (quite heroic but he refuses to acknowledge such).

    "Order of the Red Star" is very large reward.

    "Russo-Finnish war of 1939-40" in USSR was called "Finnish War".

    >Andrey IS a natural born leader, but in the Soviet Army he has never gotten a chance to prove it and usually misses the chances when they arise.

    What is the nonsense about Red Army!!! Natural Born Leaders had enough chances to get new rank or post in Red Army. In the time of war some good sergeants even got officers ranks without Univercity Education, most part was sent in Military Colleges.

    In Red Army any soldier could to write statement and to ask command to send his in military college.

    >He is now a Tank Commander of one of the rare front-line T-34’s.

    >His stance on Communism is neutral. He usually never talks about it and doesn’t care unless it heavily involves him.

    It is very strange. In USSR all youth was enthusiasts of Communism. They believed in ideals of Communism and wanted to build new world with better life for all.

    Only some part of 30-40 year old men queerly thought about Communist ideals. And guys from former Polish lands (Western Byelorussia and Ukraine) and from former Baltic States did it.

    All other young guys were under Soviet propaganda and believed in this propaganda slogans (it was not bad often but good like "to be ready to protect Motherland", "to be ready to be useful for country" and so on)

    In USSR most part of boys and girls in age from 10 to 16 were pioneers. Pioneers were like US scouts but with some political influence. They were considered young assistants of Party. It meant to help in development of country, to decrease illiteracy, to help for old people, to popularize different ideas, to prepare "to work and defense of Motherland"

    From 16 to 27 year youth could join to "komsomol" - "Communist Union of Youth". They helped to Party in more scale.

    And only later they could become Communists but in some cases guys before 27 year age also could become Communists.

    Before war youth prepared to service in Army very actively - they in mass amounts prepared to be snipers (good shooters got special sign "Voroshilovskiy strelok" ("Shooter of Voroshilov") because Marshal Voroshilov, Hero of Civil War, was considered sniper), they in mass amounts jumped with parachutes and flew in planes.

    It was not so easy to join to komsomol or to Communist Party.

    There were local komsomol and party organizations in plants, collective farms, military units and so on. Any local organization had leader - "komsorg" (shortly "komsomol'skiy organizator"("komsomol organizer"))or "partorg" shortly "partiynyy organizator"("party organizer")). These leaders were elected by local organization and approved by higher organization.

    If anyone wanted to join to komsomol or party he had to write statement and to ask to join his. Local organization met with him and decided this question. If anyone tried to join to party he had to be "candidate to member of party" for some time and if he was good for this time he became "member of party".

    In Army young Natural Born leaders- not officers usually were "komsorgs" (they usually were not officers but soldiers or sergeants).

    Komsomol members usually were more unselfish.

    To be komsomol or party member was reason to be better than usual soldiers and officers. In case of difficult attacks there was frequent slogan "Communists and komsomol members have to go in first lines"

    But commonly Communists were usual men which are more active and pushing.

    So I do not believe that this guy was not enthusiast of
    Communism.

    In that time nobody knew truth about GULAG and innocent victims, all youth supposed that Soviet Union is best place in World, that NKVD sent in prisons only real enemies of Soviet Power, that Stalin is best leader.

    >>By the way his father and grandfather were heroic members of the Tsarist Army during WWI and the Revolution though the government has yet to find that link.

    It is not correct. In USSR Tsarist Army was not considered heroic, nobody advertised that his relatives fought in Tsarist Army in WWI excluding cases when these relatives were simple soldiers or sergeants and made really heroic things.

    And I didn't understand about Revolution. It was important what did relatives do during Civil War.

    Efreitor (Lance Corporal) Pavel Malenkov:

    It is real parody on fanatic Communist - :-).

    >Pavel’s family supported the Bolsheviks during the Revolution and are now highly respected members of the Communist Party. Unlike his brother he was not chosen to be a Commissar, nor a NKVD officer. He believes himself to be more to the cause than his brother (and everyone else excluding the Great Leader) and that HE deserves to be a Commissar. Regardless, he does his duties and is a good driver, but he is also severely strict on Soviet Military Laws and is extremely spiteful of the rest of the crew since they do not live up to his standards of Communism. ESPECIALLY Mladishy Serzhant Valenkov. He will always take the opportunity to act like a Commissar/Leader when the chance arises, no matter the consequences on himself or others.

    Commissars were officers in rank not less than leitenant in Army equivalent. Only guys with civilian Higher education or students of special Military Colleges could become commissars.

    Who is NKVD officer in your opinion? "NKVD" means "Ministry of Internal Affairs" and it means police and secret service. So to be NKVD officer was equal to be rear troops officer. But most part of Communists wanted to fight against invaders in front not to maintain order in rear.

    If this guy was young so he couldn't be Communist.

    If he wanted to be leader so he could become komsorg or partorg of company or battalion not to think about commissar post.

    Usually guys with leaders abilities quickly got junior command ranks (from mladshiy sergeant and higher). He was only efreitor.
    You described concretly bad guy.

    Krasnoarmeets (Private) Mishin Pachenko:

    >Mishin was raised in the poor area of Kiev. His entire family worked, begged, and stole just to survive.

    >He enlisted in the Army as soon as he could to get away from it all.

    Guys were drafted because their age became enough or because they were volunteers and wanted to defend Motherland. There were no soldiers-volunteers before war.

    >He decided to be a tank gunner and found it was something he was quite good at.

    In Red Army soldiers didn't decide what military specialty to get. Red Army decided where any concrete soldier will be useful. So usually nobody asked soldier about his wishes, sometimes it was dome when there were some possible variants of using of any concrete soldier.

    >He is the best in the Regiment. He DESPISES Malenkov because of his overbearing ways and because Malenkov swears he is a true Communist though his family is aristocratic.

    It is nonsense, no one young men could hate other man because this man was too hard Communist views. And I understood your words so that Malenkov had aristocratic relatives!!! It was very bad for Communists and komsomol members to have aristocratic relatives... It was very difficult to become commissar in this case.

    >Mishin’s family is what The Cause IS supposed to be about.

    I didn't understand it.

    >He secretly hates modern Communism because of its corruption and loss of identity of what it is supposed to be, though he takes a neutral to slightly pro- stance in public.

    Ha-ha. It was absolutely impossible. If people especially young saw corruption they supposed that it was blame of some concrete men not blame of system. "Loss of identity" - it is nonsense. Soviet people get accustomed to live as part of collective, they supposed that it is OK when every man or woman is part of society. In USSR one people helped to other ones, it was OK, every men and women destination was to help to other people. And often it was good.

    >Oh yeah! Old habits never die, Pachenko continues to drink heavily on and off duty and is convinced that makes him gun better. If Malenkov or Valenkov ever found out he was using old brake fluid for the base of his drinks…

    1. In front everyone every day got 100 grammes of vodka - "narkomovskiye 100 gramm" ("There was such order of Narkom (minister) of Defense to do it in time of Finnish War").

    So there was no necessity to drink brake fluid.

    2. It was difficult for young guy to be alcoholic, he was too young.

    3. Crew lived together in tank or blindage as one family so it was difficult to drink many alcohol in secret from other crewmen and from commanders. If concrete soldier drank too many so his commander or local komsomol and party organizations could make many efforts to prevent it.

    4. Best gunner of regiment can not be alcoholic. He is under constant supervision because he has to be example for other soldiers.

    5. It was real suicide to come in combat with gunner-alcoholic.

    Krasnoarmeets (Private) Alex Runerin:

    >orig text

    He had no place in T-34.

    I do not understand why does he hate Malenkov?

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    Originally posted by BarcelonaBlom
    Thanks again... I had that part of the site figured out but the Non-Cryllic but still Russian spellings evaded me. For the reason why I'm asking check this thread....

    http://armchairgeneral.com/forums/sh...&threadid=3915
    Part 1

    YOU WROTE:

    Who would you play?
    I am making a new D20 Weird Wars (Weird War II) campaign this time on the Eastern Front. Well this time I am only giving players the experience they earned if they role-play their characters right.

    They are a 4 man tank crew and you should recognize that I used the characters off of The Beast of War and shuffled their postions.

    Who would you play purely by their background and no their statistics... Pretty much who could you fit in and act like the best.

    Mladishy Serzhant (Juniot Sergeant) Andrey Valenkov:
    Andrey enlisted into the Soviet Army in 1938, he lied about his age in order to join and make a living. He served during the Russo-Finnish war and earned an Order of the Red Star and a promotion because of his actions there (quite heroic but he refuses to acknowledge such). Andrey IS a natural born leader, but in the Soviet Army he has never gotten a chance to prove it and usually misses the chances when they arise. He is now a Tank Commander of one of the rare front-line T-34’s. His stance on Communism is neutral. He usually never talks about it and doesn’t care unless it heavily involves him. By the way his father and grandfather were heroic members of the Tsarist Army during WWI and the Revolution though the government has yet to find that link.

    Efreitor (Lance Corporal) Pavel Malenkov:
    Pavel’s family supported the Bolsheviks during the Revolution and are now highly respected members of the Communist Party. Unlike his brother he was not chosen to be a Commissar, nor a NKVD officer. He believes himself to be more to the cause than his brother (and everyone else excluding the Great Leader) and that HE deserves to be a Commissar. Regardless, he does his duties and is a good driver, but he is also severely strict on Soviet Military Laws and is extremely spiteful of the rest of the crew since they do not live up to his standards of Communism. ESPECIALLY Mladishy Serzhant Valenkov. He will always take the opportunity to act like a Commissar/Leader when the chance arises, no matter the consequences on himself or others.

    Krasnoarmeets (Private) Mishin Pachenko:
    Mishin was raised in the poor area of Kiev. His entire family worked, begged, and stole just to survive. He enlisted in the Army as soon as he could to get away from it all. He decided to be a tank gunner and found it was something he was quite good at. He is the best in the Regiment. He DESPISES Malenkov because of his overbearing ways and because Malenkov swears he is a true Communist though his family is aristocratic. Mishin’s family is what The Cause IS supposed to be about. He secretly hates modern Communism because of its corruption and loss of identity of what it is supposed to be, though he takes a neutral to slightly pro- stance in public. Oh yeah! Old habits never die, Pachenko continues to drink heavily on and off duty and is convinced that makes him gun better. If Malenkov or Valenkov ever found out he was using old brake fluid for the base of his drinks…

    Krasnoarmeets (Private) Alex Runerin:
    Alex grew up like Mishin but in the city of Smolensk. His family worked hard to make ends meet. He enlisted and was put into a Radio Operator’s Position on a T-28 but was transferred to a front-line T-34 unit. His tank doesn’t have a radio but he has a DT Machinegun to play with now. He usually doesn’t think much for himself and he HATES Malenkov. He usually sides with Valenkov in argument though he will support Pachenko if need be since they are friends. Alex knows Pachenko’s secret about making alcohol with the tank’s brake fluid and is sworn to secrecy.

    Remarks of Andrey:

    I read it and it is clear for me that you are one more victim of Western propaganda - :-).

    1. "Mladishy" is wrong, "mladshiy" is correct.

    2. There was no Soviet Army in that time, there was Red Army.

    3. T-34 in start of war had 3 men crew - mechanic-driver, gun loader, commander of tank (he also was gunlayer). If you want to have 4 men in crew you have to replace T-34 by KV (as I remember KV had 4 men in crew).

    4. There are no names Alex and Mishin.
    There is name Alexey, for friends and relatives - Aliosha.
    There is name Mikhail, for friends and relatives - Misha.
    Also Pavel for friends and relatives is Pasha.

    5. Valenkov, Malenkov - these names are two similar. You can use Petrov, Mikhailov, Kuznetsov names, these names are frequent (I can say you thousands of frequent Russian names - ;-))

    Pachenko... Panchenko is better. Or Pashchenko. Or Pashenko.

    Runerin... Strange name but it is possible.

    6. You often speak about bad life in USSR. In USSR there was hunger in start of 30th but then life was relatively good not like in USA in time of Great Depression when some guys joined to Army for saving their lifes. in USSR society helped for those society members who had no enough food so there was no hunger and bad life.

    Anyone young boy or girl could get any education, it was free especially for children of peasants and workers.

    7. There was term discipline. You can hate your commander but he is your commander. (Your commander has to be very bad for being target of such hatred).

    One crew, 4 young men, one is fanatic Communist, two do not like Communists, one doesn't like that crewman who is fanatic Communist.

    Where did you find so strange anti-Soviet crew?

    In your example crew is full of intrigues, even hatred from one to other.

    It is very strange.

    Crews of tanks understood that they have to operate like one united mechanism; mistake of one will be reason of death of all. In such conditions to begin intrigues and hatred is not good idea, it is more correct to achieve harmony in work with battle comrades.

    In real life crews of tanks were not so political excited. Imagine that you will have to fight in one tank with three other usual man (u-s-u-a-l !!!). What will be your problems with them?

    OK, let's speak in order

    Mladishy Serzhant (Juniot Sergeant) Andrey Valenkov:

    >Andrey enlisted into the Soviet Army in 1938, he lied about his age in order to join and make a living.

    You do not understand draft system. In any "rayon" (part of town or group of villages) there is "military commissariat" under command of "military commissar". These commissariats gathered information about possible enlisted soldiers and draft recruits when young men get draft age. When boy come in school, school gives data in local "military commissariat" about this boy. When guys come in "military commissariat" they have documents where their age is written, nobody will draft soldier without documents.

    So...

    1. It was very difficult "to deceive" "military commissariat" about your age. Yes, it was possible to do in time of war where there was large confusion and nobody checked age correctly. But you speak about 1938...

    2. I doubt that Red Army drafted volunteers in 1938. Red Army did it in time of war but not in 1938. If guy came in "military commissariat" in 1938 and said that he wanted to join Red Army so workers of "military commissariat" could say to him "You are too young and have to grow up. In any case we remember about you, if Motherland will need you we will draft you, go home, prepare to service and wait" or send his in military college. But he couldn't go in Army as soldier-volunteer in that time.

    To be continued...

    Leave a comment:


  • BarcelonaBlom
    replied
    Thanks again... I had that part of the site figured out but the Non-Cryllic but still Russian spellings evaded me. For the reason why I'm asking check this thread....

    http://armchairgeneral.com/forums/sh...&threadid=3915

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    Originally posted by BarcelonaBlom
    MANY MORE THANK-YOU's THAN YOU'D BELIEVE ANDREY!!!

    That was a big help... I could you detail the rank names in Russian please? I know that they have commissar's inserted at the different levels but did they have specific names?
    1. Here are ranks of Commissars (and their Army analog) in 1940-42.

    Commanders of Red Army had name “komandnyy sostav” (“command staff”), commissars had name “politicheskiy sostav” (“political staff”). (May be, it is more correct to use word “personnel” instead of “staff”, my dictionary gives both these words as analog of Russian “sostav”).

    In 1940-42 militaries had badge of rank in buttonholes (like in Japan Army). It was because epaulets were considered symbol of officers of old Tsar Army which were base of old Tsar regime and fought against Soviet power in Civil War. Soviet commanders were considered not officers but “commanders”.

    (After Revolution all officer posts were canceled. All commanders were called only “commanders”. But troops got problem that there were different scale commanders so commanders became to be called shortly from approximate posts which they could get, for example, “komdiv” is shortly “commander of division”. And it was reason of large confusions with ranks and posts. Later commanders were divided in junior, medium, senior and supreme commanders. In 1940 generals got real name “generals” but officers were officers in reality but were called “commanders”. Only in October of 1942 officers became called “officers”, troops got epaulets, commissar posts were canceled. It was practically complete returning to usual Army from revolutionary army, from that time Red Army became usual state army of that time.)

    Commanders and commissars of RKKA in 1940-42 had squares (“cube”), rectangle (“sleeper”), rhombs and stars.

    Order is following
    Symbol – Army rank – Commissars rank (symbol of commissar rank, if it differs from Army symbol)

    Junior command staff - sergeants

    Medium command and political staff

    1 “cube” – “mladshiy leitenant”
    2 “cubes” – “leitenant” - “mladshiy politruk”
    3 “cubes” – “starshiy leitenant” - “politruk”

    Senior command and political staff

    1 “sleeper” – “kapitan” - “starshiy politruk”
    2 “sleepers” – “mayor” - “battallionnyy kommissar”
    3 “sleepers” – “podpolkovnik” - “starshiy battallionnyy kommissar”
    4 “sleepers” – “polkovnik” - “polkovoy kommissar”

    Supreme command and political staff

    2 stars – “general-mayor” - “divizionnyy kommissar”(2 rhombs)
    3 stars – “general-leitenant” - “korpusnoy kommissar”(3 rhombs)
    4 stars – “general-polkovnik” - “armeyskiy kommissar 2 ranga”(4 rhombs)
    5 stars – “general armii” - “armeyskiy kommissar 1 ranga”(4 rhombs and 1 goldish star)
    1 large star with laurel frond – “Marshal Sovetskogo Soyuza”

    (Before 1940 there were ranks

    EDIT:

    ...
    4 “sleepers” – “polkovnik” - “polkovoy kommissar”
    1 rhomb - “kombrig” - "brigadnyy kommissar"
    2 rhombs – “komdiv” - “divizionnyy kommissar”
    3 rhombs – “komkor” - “korpusnoy kommissar”
    ...


    In 1940 old ranks “kombrig” and “brigadnyy kommissar” were canceled without new analog. Some officers got higher rank “general-mayor” (“divizionnyy kommissar”), some - lower rank “polkovnik” (“polkovoy kommissar”), it was made in result of attestation and most part got lower rank. Some part of “kombrigs” and “brigadnyy kommissar” offended with it and continued to call themselves by their old ranks and to have old symbols all the more attestation process was not finished to the start of war and stopped after start of war.

    So it was possible to meet in troops in 1941-42 officers which had 1 rhomb in buttonholes and called themselves “kombrig” and “brigadnyy kommissar” when officially Red Army had no such ranks and symbols.

    After start of war some commanders were released from prisons and sent in troops but they didn’t get new ranks and still had old ranks “kombrig”, “komdiv”, “komkor” and had 1, 2, 3 rhombs in buttonholes like it was before 1940. So they were commanders but had rhombs in buttonholes which in 1941-42 were signs of supreme kommissars.)

    Some translations

    mladshiy - junior
    starshiy - senior
    battallionnyy – battalion [scale]
    polkovoy – regiment [scale]
    divizionnyy – division [scale]
    korpusnoy – corps [scale]
    armeyskiy – army [scale]
    rang – rank, class
    kombrig- shortly “komandir brigady” (“commander of brigade”)
    komdiv- shortly “komandir divizii” (“commander of division”)
    komkor- shortly “komandir korpusa” (“commander of corps”)
    brigadnyy – brigade [scale]
    politruk- shortly “politicheskiy rukovoditel” (“political leader”)

    Here are links of my source (in Russian)

    http://www.rustrana.ru/article.php?nid=155

    http://www.rustrana.ru/article.php?nid=156

    EDIT: You can see pictures here.

    Also all commissars had large red star in the bottom cheek of sleeves.

    2. About Russian language.

    It is possible to say in English, for example,

    “Brigade Commissar” or “Commissar of Brigade”.

    and it is the same.

    In Russian language post is correctly to call “Commissar of Brigade” (“Kommissar brigady”).

    “Brigade Commissar” mean “Brigadnyy kommissar” and it is not the same, it is considered “Brigade Scale Commissar” rank.

    If to return to Popel (I wrote about his in first message) so he had rank “brigadnyy kommissar” and was Commissar of 8th Mechanized Corps in first days of war.

    3. About commissars.

    Usual image of commissar – fanatic Communist who goes behind soldiers and shot in the head if those who retreats.

    Here is one example who were they in reality.

    Before war army was increased and there was necessity in new commissars for new units. In 1940 government decided to draft village teachers as “politruks” in troops, before this time village teachers were free from draft in Army.

    In 1940-41 for one year before war 20,000 village teachers were drafted in troops. Activity of “politruk”-teachers was evaluated very well. They knew what to say for their former schoolboys. Many former Soviet commanders recalled about it. Hoebbels wrote in his diary “Red commissars… is main factor in firmness of Bolshevicks”. Practically all these “politruk”-teachers were killed in 1941…

    I forgot to say before that “brigadnyy kommissar”Popel (who captured Dubno with troops of 8th Mech Corps in first days of war and was mentioned in memoirs of Halder) was not rear commander who commanded from safe blindage, he had general level rank but often fought in first line in his T-34.

    4.In October, 9 of 1942 GKO (State Committee of Defense) canceled commissars in troops.

    EDIT: Amount of "zampolit"s in troops was less than commissars.

    Some part of former commissars became “zampolit”s, some part of commissars became usual officers and were sent to command companies, battalions, regiments, divisions. Their ranks were canceled and that got usual military ranks but one step lower so, for example, “divizionnyy kommissar” got rank “polkovnik” not “general-mayor”.

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by BarcelonaBlom
    Ermm.. not Cryllic!! Time to bust out the Cryllic guide...
    Maybe its worth to try soething like translate.ru automatic translator?

    Leave a comment:


  • BarcelonaBlom
    replied
    Originally posted by amvas
    Full table on all ranks on June 22'41 see http://www.soldat.ru/spravka/rank/table8.html (in Russian)
    Ermm.. not Cryllic!! Time to bust out the Cryllic guide...

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by BarcelonaBlom
    MANY MORE THANK-YOU's THAN YOU'D BELIEVE ANDREY!!!

    That was a big help... I could you detail the rank names in Russian please? I know that they have commissar's inserted at the different levels but did they have specific names?
    Full table on all ranks on June 22'41 see http://www.soldat.ru/spravka/rank/table8.html (in Russian)

    Leave a comment:


  • BarcelonaBlom
    replied
    MANY MORE THANK-YOU's THAN YOU'D BELIEVE ANDREY!!!

    That was a big help... I could you detail the rank names in Russian please? I know that they have commissar's inserted at the different levels but did they have specific names?

    Leave a comment:

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