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  • #16
    Originally posted by Scott Fraser View Post
    TEN T-34-57 were produced and issued to the 22nd Tank Brigade in October 1941 outside Vladimir, where the brigade was destroyed. There were two prototypes tested in 1943, but not produced. The 57mm gun had superior armour penetration than the 76mm F-34, but an inferior HE charge, considered equally important.

    Scott Fraser
    No, it was the 21st Tank Bde.

    Not 2, but 3 T-34-76 rearmed with ZIS-4M 57mm gun in the 1st platoon of special "100" tank company

    Regards
    Alex
    If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

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    • #17
      OK. Thanks for the clarification, Alex.
      Last edited by SS-Kommando; 24 Jun 10, 08:10.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Johnny_Reb View Post
        Would you take 2 T34 or 2 Shermans to take out a Tiger?
        Neither...I would follow proper American doctrine and use a tank destroyer : M10/M18/M36, depending on the what's available.

        Unless I'm British and the Shermans are Fireflys, in which case I would take the Firefly.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by amvas View Post
          No, it was the 21st Tank Bde.

          Not 2, but 3 T-34-76 rearmed with ZIS-4M 57mm gun in the 1st platoon of special "100" tank company

          Regards
          Alex
          Okay. I wrote from memory. Lukin's tank and Ivanov's tank (from 22 TB) are both on my models-to-build list.

          The best sources are the recent magnum opus on the T-34 by M. Kolomiets, Т-34 Первая полная энциклопедия, as well as an article discussing delivery records for the ZiS-4 by Svirin, IIRC, in TM magazine three or four years ago.

          Essentially, the 57mm gun was an experiment that worked, but was not adopted for tanks. The gun proved superior to the F-34, except the Army wanted the HE capability of the larger shell. A few were mounted on Komsomolets tractors, an expedient to create the rather nasty ZiS-30 SPG. The tank gun went back on the shelf, but the gun was later set on a ZiS-3 carriage to become the very potent ZiS-2 anti-tank gun.

          As Kharkov was threatened, KhPZ and its various subsidiaries were evacuated. The factories were cleared out, and it appears that 21 TB inherited the "project" tanks, including these T-34-57, two OT-34 with fougasse flamethrowers, and another 16 standard T-34s (some of which were probably radio tanks). The brigade engaged the Germans at Vladimir, on the approaches to Moscow, and was destroyed in the course of October 1941...

          There are two photos of Lukin's (white 20) tank taken at the time and a third taken the following February, but no other photos of production T-34-57s. There are also photos of white 21 and white 4, both standard T-34s. The serials and fate of the ten T-34-57s are listed in Kolomiets' book and in the TM article, and the story is completely described there.

          Cheers
          Scott Fraser
          Ignorance is not the lack of knowledge. It is the refusal to learn.

          A contentedly cantankerous old fart

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