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OT: The President of Poland died in air crash

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  • amvas
    replied


    Way to the ground
    Last edited by amvas; 14 Apr 10, 13:39.

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  • Erkki
    replied
    Investigators begin analysing Polish Tu-154's recorders
    By David Kaminski-Morrow

    Investigators have started analysing the flight recorders retrieved from the Polish presidential Tupolev Tu-154M which crashed at Smolensk yesterday
    http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...recorders.html

    Leave a comment:


  • Egorka
    replied
    Originally posted by MonsterZero View Post
    This was clearly pilot error but it also means a speedy withdrawal of old Russian equipment from Polish government service. Those 1960s Tupolevs have antiquated cockpit environments imposing excessive pilot workload with too many switches to set, too many instruments to monitor, too many checklists. The crews spend too much time going through checklists and throwing switches and not enough time looking out the window to watch for terrain and traffic.
    You are probably right about TU-154 being not amost modern craft out there...
    On the othe hand there was literally NOTHING to see out of the cockpit window - the fog was extremely dence, zero vizibility.
    One bloger from Smolensk wrote that he could not see the ground from his window on the 7th floor.

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  • Admiral
    replied
    I think all too often we see what we want to see, Alexi...

    But, by God, I see it, my friend...

    The last couple of weeks have brought a great many tears for both Russia & Poland...

    In as much as I have flown your nations colors, & now those of Poland, from Respects & genuine Condolence...

    I also pray that Poland & Russia now comfort each other as good neighbors so often do...

    The world knows enough pain & sorrow...

    Mutually Compassionate Comfort of ones fellow humankind in its midst is a self fulfilling Blessing.

    Wes

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  • amvas
    replied


    Mystery in the sky today in Smolensk!
    Landing Tu-154...

    I'm speechless

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  • amvas
    replied
    Satellite photo of the place

    Marked first touch, wing touch and full touch of the earth

    Regards
    Alex

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  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by MonsterZero View Post
    Amvas, there are suspicions the crew was being pressured to land by the big shot politicians aboard who didn't want to be late for the Katyn event.
    I gave facts, but not guesses.
    Yes, I also heard this version, but lets wait until records of talks in the cockpit will be decrypted.

    Also, I don't understand why the plane was flying with a wing pointed at the ground. The possibility of a mechanical failure should not be dismissed. Yes, I realize the plane had been overhauled but an overhaul guarantees nothing. On overhaul is a point by point inspection that's very tedious but it guarantees nothing. Factory new equipment has failed and will fail, it's just very unlikely in a well-maintained plane.
    I think such a list could be seen because the pilot
    a) lost orientation for a while (that usually can occur when visibility is poor enough)
    b) the pilot tried to catch a landing ground direction.
    In this case when an airplane tried to make a turn in such a manner (using ailerons instead of rudder) it causes airplane to list and loose altitude.

    But all of this is only my guess...

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  • MonsterZero
    replied
    Amvas, there are suspicions the crew was being pressured to land by the big shot politicians aboard who didn't want to be late for the Katyn event.

    Also, I don't understand why the plane was flying with a wing pointed at the ground. The possibility of a mechanical failure should not be dismissed. Yes, I realize the plane had been overhauled but an overhaul guarantees nothing. On overhaul is a point by point inspection that's very tedious but it guarantees nothing. Factory new equipment has failed and will fail, it's just very unlikely in a well-maintained plane.
    Last edited by MonsterZero; 11 Apr 10, 04:15.

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  • amvas
    replied
    Lets wait for official investigation of this crash. But what we have for now:
    1. The airplane was thoroughly repaired 3 months ago. It got the most modern equipment (including navigation)
    2. The weather was horrible for landing (strong fog coupled with light smoke). Visibility didn't exceed 500 m
    3. The Polish crew was informed about weather conditions flying far away from the airfield
    4. They decided to land in spite of it.
    5. They made at least 3 attempts
    6. During the last attempt a traffic controller saw their altitude to be lower than recommended glide path and told the crew to stop descend, but got no reply
    7. A military transport plane trying to land there under the same weather conditions after 2 unsuccessful attempts went to the reserve airfield. If the polish crew did the same, you'd never read this thread....
    8. As far as I know, the airfield has no enough equipment for safe landing under such a conditions and it was not a secret for the crew...

    So, lets wait for official versions of this crash....

    P.S. A twist of fate - today in Russia a day of Antiaircraft forces is celebrated

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  • Erkki
    replied
    Originally posted by MonsterZero View Post
    Compare the figures:

    Tu-154: 1015 total ships built, 66 ships or 0.7% of the total fleet involved in serious incidents


    B-737: 6,285 total ships built, 295 ships or 0.4% of the total fleet involved in serious incidents

    It is fair to say, according to aviation experts, that the Tu-154 has an average safety record, but I doubt it will be a better record than of the B-737, however you do the math. Your numbers don't add up.

    As my acquaintance is something of a expert himself

    Where does your numbers come from?

    For your entertainment

    Are Russian planes more dangerous than Western ones? In the past 10 days, two Russian-built jets have crashed in Iran, killing a total of 185 people. On July 24, 17 people died when an Aria Airlines Ilyushin-62 skidded off the runway while landing at the city of Mashhad. On July 15, a Tupolev Tu-154 operated by Caspian Airlines crashed enroute from Tehran to Yerevan, Armenia, killing all 168 aboard. It was the fourth Tu-154 crash in Iran since 2002.

    ....

    using data from Ascend, a British outfit that advises the insurance industry. The plane with the worst ranking that is, the most fatal accidents per number of hours flown was not Russian. It was the earliest version of the Boeing 737. (Another Ilyushin plane, the Il-76, was second, and the Tu-154 was third)

    http://www.businessweek.com/globalbi...ssian-mad.html

    http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09...aircraft/1.htm

    '
    On the Guidance systems:

    http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-04-10/la...ski-crash.html
    Last edited by Erkki; 11 Apr 10, 03:25.

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  • Robbie Lynne
    replied
    What an awful tragedy...My deepest sympathy for all the families and friends involved and my deepest condolences to Polish nation...RIP and Godspeed

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  • MonsterZero
    replied
    Originally posted by Erkki View Post
    The B737 for example has a much worse safety record, but it does not show up , simply because each modification is deemed to be a separate type of aircraft. I have no idea whether anyone have done a calculation for the whole of 737 "family" in the same way as the Tu154
    Compare the figures:

    Tu-154: 1015 total ships built, 66 ships or 0.7% of the total fleet involved in serious incidents


    B-737: 6,285 total ships built, 295 ships or 0.4% of the total fleet involved in serious incidents

    It is fair to say, according to aviation experts, that the Tu-154 has an average safety record, but I doubt it will be a better record than of the B-737, however you do the math. Your numbers don't add up.

    Leave a comment:


  • IronMan15
    replied
    Originally posted by MonsterZero View Post
    The Smolensk/Katyn region is cursed. It's a vampire that even today calls for the blood of the best people that Poland has to offer. I wish a hole in the earth opened up so that hell could swallow it without a trace.
    Hoping that was a joke.

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  • joea
    replied
    Horrible tragedy and all my sympathy to the Polish nation.

    I have to wonder whose idea it was to have so many top people in the SAME plane!
    Last edited by joea; 10 Apr 10, 20:34.

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  • MonsterZero
    replied
    The Smolensk/Katyn region is cursed. It's a vampire that even today calls for the blood of the best people that Poland has to offer. I wish a hole in the earth opened up so that hell could swallow it without a trace.

    Leave a comment:

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