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Enemy At the Gates/Kommissar scene

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  • amvas
    replied
    Hi!

    I never heard troops to be sent in fight without arms and ammunition. It's one of myths!
    Sometimes in emergency there could occur situation some unit had lack of some kind of ammunition (shells, cartridges, machine-guns).

    Regards
    Alex

    Leave a comment:


  • b.moynahan
    replied
    B.Moynahan

    I am writing a book on Leningrad between 1934 and 1942, and am most interested in getting fine detail on the Nevsky Bridgehead in its first phase from the autumn of 1941 to its loss to the Germans in spring 1942. I have visited the site and have been to the museum, so have some grasp of the terrain and the units involved. However, I lack individual detail - such as diaries, letters or comments made by Russians who fought there (tho I have seen some German diaries), an idea of the pace of attacks and casualties, the conditions (were the bunkers dug into the river bank the only safe spots? did it seem a death sentence when the ice began to break up?). I was most interested to see the note on troops being sent in without arms and ammunition: does anyone have anything else of that sort? Or of sources of which I am unaware? I would be most grateful if it could be posted here or by email Many thanks. Brian Moynahan

    Leave a comment:


  • Barbarossa
    replied
    Flak?

    Originally posted by Erkki View Post
    Extreme to an extent, and according to the "Garbage at the gate" the Soviets did apparently not have any AA guns, perhaps they used them as anchors?
    According to Stuka records, Soviet AA generally consumed their quota of shells by mid morning and had to wait until the night for re-supply.
    Anyway, cannot critique the movie as I cannot get past Russians with Brit accents!

    Leave a comment:


  • Erkki
    replied
    Extreme to an extent, and according to the "Garbage at the gate" the Soviets did apparently not have any AA guns, perhaps they used them as anchors?

    Leave a comment:


  • The Exorcist
    replied
    Originally posted by Erkki View Post
    Speaking of Volga, the scene when they are crossing Volga is as mentioned by the article: junk. Bringing over supplies in daylight was only used in extreme cases...
    "Extreme cases" were the rule of the day in Stalingrad, were they not?
    And since that crossing was supposed to take place in September, its all the more likely that it could have happened just that way. In that month, you have about as many daylight hours as dark ones.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    Look also this

    http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...ight=commissar
    http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...ight=commissar
    http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...ight=commissar

    Leave a comment:


  • bubblehead
    replied
    The idea of a lone guy with his machine-gun shooting at masses of armed men running away from battle always seemed a little unworkable to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Ibis
    replied
    Thanks Erkki and ShAA.
    I guess I should have used the search function.

    Leave a comment:


  • ShAA
    replied
    Originally posted by The Ibis View Post
    I thought the movie was entertaining but silly. Ed Harris' character was straight out of central casting.

    What do you all think of the German movie Stalingrad? I found it far superior. Is there a Russian movie that is as good or better (than either)?
    If its been posted already, I must have missed it.
    There are dozens of Russian movies about Stalingrad.

    Here's my post with just a few of them.

    http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...01&postcount=7

    As for the German movie, I've seen it and it didn't seem that great to me. The director seemed to forget to address the most important aspect - why did they get there and why did they fight that injust war for Hitler to the end. And this portrayal of "conscious" German soldiers, doing little things to help those around them but somehow being unable to realise the fact they are part of a huge enslavement and genocide machine is kind of insincere. Looks like an attempt of the Germans to "humanise" them and subtly put forth the old apologist idea of "they were just following orders".
    Last edited by ShAA; 11 Feb 10, 16:53.

    Leave a comment:


  • Erkki
    replied
    Originally posted by The Ibis View Post
    I thought the movie was entertaining but silly. Ed Harris' character was straight out of central casting.

    What do you all think of the German movie Stalingrad? I found it far superior. Is there a Russian movie that is as good or better (than either)?
    If its been posted already, I must have missed it.
    Have you seen this?

    http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...ad.php?t=14923

    Leave a comment:


  • The Ibis
    replied
    I thought the movie was entertaining but silly. Ed Harris' character was straight out of central casting.

    What do you all think of the German movie Stalingrad? I found it far superior. Is there a Russian movie that is as good or better (than either)?
    If its been posted already, I must have missed it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Erkki
    replied
    Speaking of Volga, the scene when they are crossing Volga is as mentioned by the article: junk. Bringing over supplies in daylight was only used in extreme cases...

    Leave a comment:


  • Kunikov
    replied
    Originally posted by jeffthewookiee View Post
    Can anyone tell me how historically accurate the film Enemy at the Gates is with regards to the scenes showing untrained conscript soldiers being handed 1 rifle per 2 men? Did this really occur in the Battle of Stalingrad, or anywhere on the East Front? It's hard to imagine them pushing people straight off the train into an assault on prepared German positions, and then machine gunning any who tried to retreat...
    While there were shortages throughout the battle of Stalingrad, in terms of supplies of all kinds, the troops actually fighting in Stalingrad received weapons even if they came over the Volga without (internal reports are pretty candid in this regard). They also utilized German weapons and materials when running short.

    Leave a comment:


  • ShAA
    replied
    Originally posted by Scott Fraser View Post
    I know, Alex. It is puzzling. I see many comments like this from Poles, and I don't understand why they would rather be occupied by Nazis.

    Cheers
    Scott
    Because it's all about the attitude. The Germans smiled nicely, had cool uniforms and said: "Would you please follow me to the gas chamber?" They wore nice white gloves too. The Russians were not cultured at all, wore cotton jackets and reeked of cheap alcohol. Some even washed potatoes in toilet bowls. Make no mistake, the asthetic subtlety of Polish nationalists is a thing to be admired. Oscar Wilde would be an uncouth brute compared to them. They'd rather go into a nicely decorated concentration camp run by cultured people than live the unbearable life where they had to learn Russian at school and suffer from the lack of Levi's jeans.

    I know not all Poles are like that by those internet nationalists surely are.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scott Fraser
    replied
    Originally posted by jeffthewookiee View Post
    Can anyone tell me how historically accurate the film Enemy at the Gates is with regards to the scenes showing untrained conscript soldiers being handed 1 rifle per 2 men? Did this really occur in the Battle of Stalingrad, or anywhere on the East Front? It's hard to imagine them pushing people straight off the train into an assault on prepared German positions, and then machine gunning any who tried to retreat...
    Jeff, remember that Hollywood provides entertainment, not history. The same can be said for television, including some "documentaries". History is a discipline, requiring research and writing after appropriate reflection. It also involves peer review to ensure conclusions are supported by research, and it requires thought. Neither movies nor television are good at any of these things.

    The title "Enema at the Grates" is appropriate, and hints at the content of the movie. Think of sixty seconds later ... and it is pure Hollywood.

    Cheers
    Scott Fraser

    Leave a comment:

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