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  • #61
    Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
    And in the end, the young couple march off together under the Red Star... jeez. I think the producers wanted to try and market it in the old USSR, and they might even have pulled it off.
    Big whoop.
    If you shoot an American movie which portrays the Soviet reality based on images and "facts" shown in Soviet propaganda movies (and this is what 99,9% of American films about Russia do), you can only make it campy at best and cheesy/stupid at worst. "Zhivago" is a fine example of the latter.
    www.histours.ru

    Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

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    • #62
      Originally posted by ShAA View Post
      If you shoot an American movie which portrays the Soviet reality based on images and "facts" shown in Soviet propaganda movies (and this is what 99,9% of American films about Russia do), you can only make it campy at best and cheesy/stupid at worst. "Zhivago" is a fine example of the latter.
      Yup.
      I think I'll watch Tank Brigade again.
      We should probably stick to making movies about our own guys. "The Hurt Locker was pretty good, seen it?
      Speaking of that, have there been any recent war movies made in Russia?

      (recently made, not about recent wars)
      "Why is the Rum gone?"

      -Captain Jack

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      • #63
        Speaking of that, have there been any recent war movies made in Russia?
        http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...ighlight=brest
        There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

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        • #64
          Thanks, but the only vid that hasn't been pulled yet was the trailer.
          I hate Youtube sometimes...
          The trailer DID look a lot like those propaganda posters, come to think of it.
          "Why is the Rum gone?"

          -Captain Jack

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          • #65
            Will someone please nominate this movie for the new ACG Campaign?
            Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

            Prayers.

            BoRG

            http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

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            • #66
              Thanks, but the only vid that hasn't been pulled yet was the trailer.
              I hate Youtube sometimes...
              The trailer DID look a lot like those propaganda posters, come to think of it.
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z11Pzsd9yJw

              Those propaganda posters ?
              There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
                Thanks, but the only vid that hasn't been pulled yet was the trailer.
                I hate Youtube sometimes...
                I second Emtos' choice. This is one of the few recent movies which doesn't spout BS and stereotypes.

                The trailer DID look a lot like those propaganda posters, come to think of it.
                Could you elaborate on this a bit? I reckon that for a man with heavy pro-German sympathies the portrayal of any Soviet soldier who is not an orc driven to mindless slaughter by ogres would be "propaganda"
                www.histours.ru

                Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                  Could you elaborate on this a bit? I reckon that for a man with heavy pro-German sympathies the portrayal of any Soviet soldier who is not an orc driven to mindless slaughter by ogres would be "propaganda"
                  Going straight back to that, again?
                  Well, there is the Soviet portrayal of all Germans in that war- the Fanatical unrelenting killer that is also a coward that runs from armed Russians yet always machine-guns unarmed civilians in preference to the Russian pointing a cannon at him... and on and on.

                  That war was 70 years ago, but you would think it was still going on for some people.
                  The portrayal of the Germans in Russia is exactly the same in every detail as it was during the war.
                  Why can't some people move on?

                  I'm going to follow Salinator's suggestion.
                  Endless war and all that rot...
                  "Why is the Rum gone?"

                  -Captain Jack

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                  • #69
                    Going straight back to that, again?
                    Well, there is the Soviet portrayal of all Germans in that war- the Fanatical unrelenting killer that is also a coward that runs from armed Russians yet always machine-guns unarmed civilians in preference to the Russian pointing a cannon at him... and on and on.

                    That war was 70 years ago, but you would think it was still going on for some people.
                    The portrayal of the Germans in Russia is exactly the same in every detail as it was during the war.
                    Why can't some people move on?

                    I'm going to follow Salinator's suggestion.
                    Endless war and all that rot...



                    90 % of events of the film were shown as they were lived by those people.

                    Dare explain us the fact that around 15 millions of Soviet civilians were killed during the war. In Belarus alone where the events of movie are happening a quart of the population was killed. In Leninigrad where ShAA is living, between 600 000 and a million of people were starved to death.

                    Wrong portrayal ? My . It was reality, just accept it.


                    Recently I had seen "Transformers 3".
                    And what are you thing ? There were Russians ! What are they doing ? Drinking of course ! Where ? In a dark bar controlled by mafia and full of bitches.
                    Maybe it's time to move on ?
                    Last edited by Emtos; 18 Jul 11, 16:29.
                    There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
                      That war was 70 years ago, but you would think it was still going on for some people. The portrayal of the Germans in Russia is exactly the same in every detail as it was during the war

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
                        Going straight back to that, again?
                        Well, there is the Soviet portrayal of all Germans in that war- the Fanatical unrelenting killer that is also a coward that runs from armed Russians yet always machine-guns unarmed civilians in preference to the Russian pointing a cannon at him... and on and on.

                        That war was 70 years ago, but you would think it was still going on for some people.
                        The portrayal of the Germans in Russia is exactly the same in every detail as it was during the war.
                        Why can't some people move on?

                        I'm going to follow Salinator's suggestion.
                        Endless war and all that rot...
                        If they killed 27 million Americans, you would be the first one to insist to show the Germans as the vile murderers they were in every WW2 movie with foam all over your mouth.

                        As for the human shield scene, it really happened during the fighting in the Brest fortress, and it was described on numerous occasions elsewhere on the Eastern and even Western fronts. If you're so sorry your beloved Germans were shown not exactly like the chivalrious knights you believe them to have been, sorry, no candy for you.

                        You have to understand one thing - this war was absolutely nothing like it was for the Americans, and the Germans treated - and fought - the Russians in a completely different fashion than how they fought the Americans. So the portrayal of the Germans would be entirely different from what you believe it "should be", and for completely legitimate historical reasons, without any "propaganda" or anything.

                        And finally, your hate and distrust for the Russians and Russia in your every post is getting a bit tiring. I would pay no attention to your posts or respond to them in an entirely different manner if you didn't seem reasonable and attempt to start a dialogue. But how can you have a dialogue with someone who's got "you evil b***rds" tucked in between the lines?
                        www.histours.ru

                        Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

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                        • #72
                          That's the trouble with reading between the lines; you see what you want to see.

                          And if you will notice, I'm not contradicting your assessment of the Germans.
                          Ah, but nobody noticed that.... big surprise.
                          I'm saying that the portrayal of them in these movies is tiresome and repetitive. Helps make the movies themselves boring and eliminates any real desire to see any more of them.

                          I say that certain portrayals are over the top and stereotypical, and for that you brand me a -lover.
                          Don't you ever wonder why some Cold-War stereotypes never seem to die vis-a-vi the Russians, you have no further to look than your own self.

                          I never called the Russians "orcs" nor have I ever met anyone who did. I had assumed that any poster that did was being sarcastic, and in fact you are the only one I recall ever using that term in the first place.

                          Now, sure you can claim the superior trauma and all, but the Civil War we had in the US was pretty horrendous too, and the Confederacy had some eerie similarities to the Third Reich.
                          There are people in this country that still take that war very seriously and try to use it to justify current events and attitudes.
                          They are, in a word, laughable.
                          I'm just glad there are so few of them.

                          Well, I guess I'm too radical for this RKKA area, time to take another year off and leave all discussion to one side of the issue, again.


                          Edit - almost forgot, they don't like the K-word here.... among a multitude of others that were freely in use just a couple of years ago.
                          Last edited by The Exorcist; 19 Jul 11, 02:54.
                          "Why is the Rum gone?"

                          -Captain Jack

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            That's the trouble with reading between the lines; you see what you want to see.

                            And if you will notice, I'm not contradicting your assessment of the Germans.
                            Ah, but nobody noticed that.... big surprise.
                            I'm saying that the portrayal of them in these movies is tiresome and repetitive. Helps make the movies themselves boring and eliminates any real desire to see any more of them.

                            I say that certain portrayals are over the top and stereotypical, and for that you brand me a -lover.
                            Don't you ever wonder why some Cold-War stereotypes never seem to die vis-a-vi the Russians, you have no further to look than your own self.

                            I never called the Russians "orcs" nor have I ever met anyone who did. I had assumed that any poster that did was being sarcastic, and in fact you are the only one I recall ever using that term in the first place.

                            Now, sure you can claim the superior trauma and all, but the Civil War we had in the US was pretty horrendous too, and the Confederacy had some eerie similarities to the Third Reich.
                            There are people in this country that still take that war very seriously and try to use it to justify current events and attitudes.
                            They are, in a word, laughable.
                            I'm just glad there are so few of them.

                            Well, I guess I'm too radical for this RKKA area, time to take another year off and leave all discussion to one side of the issue, again.


                            Edit - almost forgot, they don't like the K-word here.... among a multitude of others that were freely in use just a couple of years ago.

                            Reminds me :

                            Soviet journalist Boris Strelnikov who worked in USA told this :
                            -You know Miss Green that we lost 20 millions of people during the war ?
                            -It's impossible ! In USA the life was difficult too. Gas was rationed and it was hard to buy chicken.

                            Its the same with our conversation. We speak about 27 millions of death, when you try to convict us that the Confedarates were bad guys too and that portray Nazis like killers is boring and stereotipical.

                            I only can you suggest to make a movie about brave NVA fighting invading genocidal Americans or Talibans killing Westerners for the freedom of their country. It will be more occurate that Germanic knights in Eastern front.
                            There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                              Reminds me :

                              Soviet journalist Boris Strelnikov who worked in USA told this :
                              -You know Miss Green that we lost 20 millions of people during the war ?
                              -It's impossible ! In USA the life was difficult too. Gas was rationed and it was hard to buy chicken.
                              Just brilliant. If only more characters were allowed in the signature, I would add it there.
                              www.histours.ru

                              Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
                                That's the trouble with reading between the lines; you see what you want to see.
                                I'm sorry, but this seems to be exactly your problem.

                                And if you will notice, I'm not contradicting your assessment of the Germans.
                                Ah, but nobody noticed that.... big surprise.
                                I'm saying that the portrayal of them in these movies is tiresome and repetitive. Helps make the movies themselves boring and eliminates any real desire to see any more of them.
                                So are you suggesting to rewrite history to make it more "cativating"? If these actions happened, why the heck must we deliberately ignore them only to please a small bunch of American Wehrmacht fanboys who want to see their heroes in a more sophisticated and nuanced light? If you suggest the pro-German doctored version would sell better in the States - well, maybe we're not Capitalist enough and prefer to stick to historical accuracy.

                                I say that certain portrayals are over the top and stereotypical, and for that you brand me a -lover.
                                If they behaved exactly like it was in the "stereotypes", and it was documented, what's your problem?

                                As for the lover, if you see someone bashing Russia on every single occasion and seeing every historical WW2 event and alternative from a purely Third Reich perspective, you can easily apply the walking and quacking duck rule. You might claim greater sophistication, but I don't really care if it's a mandarin duck and not a usual one.

                                Don't you ever wonder why some Cold-War stereotypes never seem to die vis-a-vi the Russians, you have no further to look than your own self.
                                Of course, they will never die with those who want the Russians to be what they would like them to be and to do what they are told to do.

                                I never called the Russians "orcs" nor have I ever met anyone who did. I had assumed that any poster that did was being sarcastic, and in fact you are the only one I recall ever using that term in the first place.
                                Orcs is the only accurate word to describe the way they were portrayed in Enema at the Gates. You've already been presented the evidence in the form of screenshots. The Hollywood seemed to have stripped all circuses of freaks to fill its Red Army personnel cast.

                                Now, sure you can claim the superior trauma and all, but the Civil War we had in the US was pretty horrendous too, and the Confederacy had some eerie similarities to the Third Reich.
                                Comparison with Civil War - Facepalm.jpg

                                I'm not claiming "superior trauma", it's just you who can't possibly understand what the German invasion was for the Russians.

                                There are people in this country that still take that war very seriously and try to use it to justify current events and attitudes.
                                They are, in a word, laughable.
                                I'm just glad there are so few of them.
                                See just above.

                                Well, I guess I'm too radical for this RKKA area, time to take another year off and leave all discussion to one side of the issue, again.
                                We're all waiting with bated breath when you deign to enlighten us another time on how we should portray the Germans.
                                www.histours.ru

                                Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

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