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  • #16
    I thought the movie was entertaining but silly. Ed Harris' character was straight out of central casting.

    What do you all think of the German movie Stalingrad? I found it far superior. Is there a Russian movie that is as good or better (than either)?
    If its been posted already, I must have missed it.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by The Ibis View Post
      I thought the movie was entertaining but silly. Ed Harris' character was straight out of central casting.

      What do you all think of the German movie Stalingrad? I found it far superior. Is there a Russian movie that is as good or better (than either)?
      If its been posted already, I must have missed it.
      Have you seen this?

      http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...ad.php?t=14923
      “For there is nothing more serious than a lunatic when he comes to the central point of his lunacy.”

      Max Sterner

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      • #18
        Originally posted by The Ibis View Post
        I thought the movie was entertaining but silly. Ed Harris' character was straight out of central casting.

        What do you all think of the German movie Stalingrad? I found it far superior. Is there a Russian movie that is as good or better (than either)?
        If its been posted already, I must have missed it.
        There are dozens of Russian movies about Stalingrad.

        Here's my post with just a few of them.

        http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...01&postcount=7

        As for the German movie, I've seen it and it didn't seem that great to me. The director seemed to forget to address the most important aspect - why did they get there and why did they fight that injust war for Hitler to the end. And this portrayal of "conscious" German soldiers, doing little things to help those around them but somehow being unable to realise the fact they are part of a huge enslavement and genocide machine is kind of insincere. Looks like an attempt of the Germans to "humanise" them and subtly put forth the old apologist idea of "they were just following orders".
        Last edited by ShAA; 11 Feb 10, 16:53.
        www.histours.ru

        Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

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        • #19
          Thanks Erkki and ShAA.
          I guess I should have used the search function.

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          • #20
            The idea of a lone guy with his machine-gun shooting at masses of armed men running away from battle always seemed a little unworkable to me.

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            • #22
              Originally posted by Erkki View Post
              Speaking of Volga, the scene when they are crossing Volga is as mentioned by the article: junk. Bringing over supplies in daylight was only used in extreme cases...
              "Extreme cases" were the rule of the day in Stalingrad, were they not?
              And since that crossing was supposed to take place in September, its all the more likely that it could have happened just that way. In that month, you have about as many daylight hours as dark ones.
              "Why is the Rum gone?"

              -Captain Jack

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              • #23
                Extreme to an extent, and according to the "Garbage at the gate" the Soviets did apparently not have any AA guns, perhaps they used them as anchors?
                “For there is nothing more serious than a lunatic when he comes to the central point of his lunacy.”

                Max Sterner

                Comment


                • #24
                  Flak?

                  Originally posted by Erkki View Post
                  Extreme to an extent, and according to the "Garbage at the gate" the Soviets did apparently not have any AA guns, perhaps they used them as anchors?
                  According to Stuka records, Soviet AA generally consumed their quota of shells by mid morning and had to wait until the night for re-supply.
                  Anyway, cannot critique the movie as I cannot get past Russians with Brit accents!

                  Comment


                  • #25
                    B.Moynahan

                    I am writing a book on Leningrad between 1934 and 1942, and am most interested in getting fine detail on the Nevsky Bridgehead in its first phase from the autumn of 1941 to its loss to the Germans in spring 1942. I have visited the site and have been to the museum, so have some grasp of the terrain and the units involved. However, I lack individual detail - such as diaries, letters or comments made by Russians who fought there (tho I have seen some German diaries), an idea of the pace of attacks and casualties, the conditions (were the bunkers dug into the river bank the only safe spots? did it seem a death sentence when the ice began to break up?). I was most interested to see the note on troops being sent in without arms and ammunition: does anyone have anything else of that sort? Or of sources of which I am unaware? I would be most grateful if it could be posted here or by email Many thanks. Brian Moynahan

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                    • #26
                      Hi!

                      I never heard troops to be sent in fight without arms and ammunition. It's one of myths!
                      Sometimes in emergency there could occur situation some unit had lack of some kind of ammunition (shells, cartridges, machine-guns).

                      Regards
                      Alex
                      If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                      Comment


                      • #27
                        Originally posted by b.moynahan View Post
                        I am writing a book on Leningrad between 1934 and 1942, and am most interested in getting fine detail on the Nevsky Bridgehead in its first phase from the autumn of 1941 to its loss to the Germans in spring 1942.
                        There's a lot of info on this, but it's nearly all in Russian. Of the English-language sources, an obvious recommendation would be D. Glanz "The Siege of Leningrad 1941-1944: 900 days of terror" and if you need a greater emphasis on individual histories, M. Jones visited the sites and had personal conversations with many veterans to write his book "Leningrad: State of Siege".

                        I have visited the site and have been to the museum, so have some grasp of the terrain and the units involved. However, I lack individual detail - such as diaries, letters or comments made by Russians who fought there (tho I have seen some German diaries),
                        Check out this site, I've made the link search for "Nevsky Bridgehead" http://www.iremember.ru/search.html?...87%D0%BE%D0%BA

                        but you'll have to translate the individual memoirs.

                        an idea of the pace of attacks and casualties,
                        Well, it differed, but the most fierce attacks were up to the end of 1941, when soldiers attacked up to 15 times a day only to gain a couple of enemy trenches and to be thrown back.

                        the conditions (were the bunkers dug into the river bank the only safe spots?
                        In all fairness there were no really safe spots as the bridgehead was very closely observed by the Germans every day and night. Whenever high caliber artillery worked or 1-ton airbombs were dropped the wooden walls of dugouts were of little use. Still, some of the bunkers, mainly those which were located by the river bank, survived.

                        did it seem a death sentence when the ice began to break up?).
                        It was, and the command of the 86th Division kept sending reinforcements to the 330th Regiment which were halved already by the time they managed to cross the river. On April 27 the regimental Chief of Staff Major Sokolov managed to swim across the river with the last reports and the unit's documents. He was the last one to get back to Nevskaya Dubrovka.

                        I was most interested to see the note on troops being sent in without arms and ammunition: does anyone have anything else of that sort? Or of sources of which I am unaware? I would be most grateful if it could be posted here or by email Many thanks. Brian Moynahan
                        Haven't heard it has ever happened there but the veterans' memoirs are full of such stories. However, practically of such stories has any firsthand evidence - normally "I've heard they were sent without rifles" or "A German soldier told me in a conversation and I'm sure it's true".
                        www.histours.ru

                        Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

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                        • #28
                          Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                          There are dozens of Russian movies about Stalingrad.

                          Here's my post with just a few of them.

                          http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...01&postcount=7

                          As for the German movie, I've seen it and it didn't seem that great to me. The director seemed to forget to address the most important aspect - why did they get there and why did they fight that injust war for Hitler to the end. And this portrayal of "conscious" German soldiers, doing little things to help those around them but somehow being unable to realise the fact they are part of a huge enslavement and genocide machine is kind of insincere. Looks like an attempt of the Germans to "humanise" them and subtly put forth the old apologist idea of "they were just following orders".
                          If the German soldiers had bothered to read the liberal "Stalin Constitution" of 1936, and realized how happy and free citizens of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics were, they would have surely laid down their arms and gone home
                          If war is Hell, why was the Eastern Front so damned cold??!!

                          Comment


                          • #29
                            Originally posted by american1975 View Post
                            If the German soldiers had bothered to read the liberal "Stalin Constitution" of 1936, and realized how happy and free citizens of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics were, they would have surely laid down their arms and gone home
                            And your point is?
                            www.histours.ru

                            Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

                            Comment


                            • #30
                              Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                              And your point is?
                              His point is that he is emotionally stunted and so his sense of self-worth demands he look down on everything Russian/Eastern European.

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