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When did the first M3 "General Lee" tanks arrived to USSR?

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  • komBat
    replied
    US tank deliveries to early January 1942

    According to Soviet sources, only 27 US-supplied tanks had reached the SU by 9 January 1942 - see the attached. Source: Alexander Hill, The Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union, 1941-1945: A documentary reader (London/New York: Routledge, 2009). I apologise for the cost of the hardback - a paperback is likely in 2010.
    Alexander Hill
    Attached Files

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  • Carl Schwamberg
    replied
    Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
    I remember reading the Americans landed in North Africa with M-3 Lees because they had sent so many M-4 Shermans to the British. If the British were getting M-4's that should mean the Soviets were getting M-3's. The Indian Army also got some M-3's that they used in Burma.

    Pruitt
    Thats it. Search the British records, not the US. The source I linked seems to be drawn entirely from US records, which would not necessarily reflect what the British were up to. The M3 light tank question is worth pursuing further. You want to exclude any chance of misidentifcation since that is fairly common with the US equipment ID system. For all we know someone has mis labled M3 Underwater Messkit Repair Equipment as 'tanks'.

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  • Pruitt
    replied
    I remember reading the Americans landed in North Africa with M-3 Lees because they had sent so many M-4 Shermans to the British. If the British were getting M-4's that should mean the Soviets were getting M-3's. The Indian Army also got some M-3's that they used in Burma.

    Pruitt

    Leave a comment:


  • DogDodger
    replied
    Unfortunately, there is no source listed for the chart. My scanner is not working with this computer currently, sorry. It's on p.526 though if anyone else wants to give it a go.

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  • Egorka
    replied
    Originally posted by DogDodger View Post
    The first medium tanks M3 were shipped to the USSR in November 1941 according to a chart in Hunnicutt's Sherman, but how many were in service at the end of the year is not mentioned.
    Sounds interesting!
    Does he provide any refferences as to where the info comes from?
    Could you possibly scan the page with the info?

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  • DogDodger
    replied
    The first medium tanks M3 were shipped to the USSR in November 1941 according to a chart in Hunnicutt's Sherman, but how many were in service at the end of the year is not mentioned.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bruno
    replied
    The first M3 being produced in april 41, it's possible that some reached USSR before the year's end. One being then captured and used against Russians is theorically possible but quite hard to believe.
    More, Great Britain, with a higher priority, received the first Grant in november 1941, in the Middle East (Egypt). And, according to S Zaloga, have only 32 in service at the beginning of february 1942.

    I read elsewhere that Light M3 (Stuart) were diverted from English stocks to Russia at the end of 1941. It might be this kind of M3 that was seen and shot at in front of Moscow.

    In the article translated by Scott about Matildas in RKKA, it's written that PQ-1 was the first convoy to deliver tanks, English ones, on october 11th.

    Last, if an US tank in russian service had been captured by Germans, I think this would have been photographied and widely diffused by Propagand Kompanies !

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  • charlieboy
    replied
    i think carls information on supply dates falls in line with with some research i done a few years back
    i dont think there was to my knowledge? a evaluation batch russia
    was grateful for any aid at the time

    Leave a comment:


  • Carl Schwamberg
    replied
    This web site shows all M3 tanks sent to the USSR in 1942 & 1943. Perhaps some of the 1942 lot arrived early in Noveber or December. Or the tank described was from a small evaluation batch sent in 1941?

    http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/w...L_general1.htm

    A quick check of some books on my shelf does not contradict the web source.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Exorcist
    replied
    Originally posted by Egorka View Post
    I am more looking for the item list for each of the PQ convoys. Are they available online?
    Wow... that's going to take some real digging, and I doubt the info is online.

    Seems like the wrong track, anyway.
    I would look into the history of the Tank itself, there ought to be something on the first combat it saw in Russia. In North Africa, which was a high priority, it didn't see action until 1942.

    The tank itself was not terrible , it just missed it's window of opportunity. Like the P-40, if the US had entered the war in 1940, it could have made a serious impression. By 1942, it's major bonus was simply that it was available.

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  • joea
    replied
    Originally posted by Egorka View Post
    Thanks. I saw it.
    It just sais "late 1941". It is not clear what that exactly means.
    And in the general Lend-Lease satt page there are total quanteties stated without presice timing.

    I am more looking for the item list for each of the PQ convoys. Are they available online?
    Well on wiki, the sources are on the bottom and seem reliable.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_...f_World_War_II

    Leave a comment:


  • Egorka
    replied
    Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
    Thanks. I saw it.
    It just sais "late 1941". It is not clear what that exactly means.
    And in the general Lend-Lease satt page there are total quanteties stated without presice timing.

    I am more looking for the item list for each of the PQ convoys. Are they available online?

    Leave a comment:


  • The Exorcist
    replied
    Try this site-

    http://www.o5m6.de/m3_lee.html

    Leave a comment:


  • When did the first M3 "General Lee" tanks arrived to USSR?

    Hello,

    Can someone help me to find when the first Lend-Lease M3 General Lee's were shipped to USSR?

    There is an account of a Soviet tanker who claims he shot such M3 used by Germans during the battles near Moscow, namely in the area around "Zavidovo Station". I guess it is this one near town of Klin.

    The map: http://velikvoy.narod.ru/karta/strat...yazma_1942.gif
    As I understand the German were "there" in more or less the same area only up until first decade of January 1942.

    To my shame I can not locate info on when the first M3's arrived to USSR.

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