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OT: RKKA during the Civil War in USA

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  • OT: RKKA during the Civil War in USA

    it can be interesting for US members
    from here: http://community.livejournal.com/war...y/1530421.html (in Russian)
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Some kinda joke?! Haha,well it would make sense the RKKA was with the Union and the Werhamch was with the Confederates!

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    • #3
      Advisors?
      "If you have too firm a belief in the glories of soldiering, try a war."

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      • #4
        Im sure that the Russian Army was called something else back then, and they did indeed draw many lessons from that war... unlike other European Armies!

        I will hunt for an article on that subject, I have some good material somewhere.
        "Why is the Rum gone?"

        -Captain Jack

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        • #5
          One aspect of the American Civil War that particularly interested Russian military analysts was Cavalry operations. By the end of the war, Federal troops were making Corps-sized independent strikes deep into the heart of the Confederacy. One raid drove 525 miles behind the lines and involved 13,480 troopers. It would stand as the largest pure-cavalry operation until well into WW1.

          Two important books were published on this subject. The first was in 1875; Cavalry raid and reconnaissance during the time of the American war, 1861-1865. by Mikolas Sukhotin. The other was The history of Cavalry from earliest times, by George T Denison.
          Denison won a 5,000 ruble prize offered by the Czar for the best history on cavalry.

          In September of 1876 The Imperial Russian Army conducted large-scale maneuvers near Warsaw, and sent a cavalry group on a 100-mile raid into the enemy rear. It was styled an Amerikansky reyd (American raid) by participants, and successfully executed in the 1877-78 war against the Turks.

          In the 1880s, the US began to publish the Official Records of the war, and introduced many Russians to the operations of General Grant, and many of them came to regard as a pioneer of the operational art.
          These studies, and experience in the Russo-Japanese war, encourage the Russian Army to develop the Army Group, the only nation to do so since the American Civil war, and a formation that the Germans were sorely lacking in 1914.
          "Why is the Rum gone?"

          -Captain Jack

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          • #6
            That interesting, Exoricst, I had no idea the Russian imperial military studied the ACW like this.

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            • #7
              Welcome.

              The funny thing is, the Russians were alone in taking that war seriously and trying to learn something from it. Von Moltke the elder is supposed to have called it "armed mobs chasing each other around the wilderness, from whom nothing can be learned."

              The fact that Russia was the only major European power that was rooting for the Union might have something to do with it.

              The ACW was a transitional war, bridging the gap between Napoleonic warfare and what the 20th century brought us. Massed formations became useless, the railroads and armored, steam-powered ships and repeating rifles all were used in sustained combat. The first really large battle, Shiloh, was every bit as bloody as Waterloo. What made the ACW a major war was the fact that there would be another 20 battles like that, or worse, before it was over.

              I will try to find some more stuff on Russian research into it, this is slow going.
              "Why is the Rum gone?"

              -Captain Jack

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              • #8
                Yeah, the ACW was no joke.

                It makes sense though, both the US and the Russian Empire were huge countries with reactionary factions that tried to succeed.

                In Russia it was based more on ethnicity, Poles for example, (although 'republcans' too) in the USA - economy / lifestyle (slavery being the pivot of southern economy).

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                • #9
                  Spot-on.

                  This was exactly the same time that Czar Nicky was freeing the serf... or in the process of doing so. It may have been long over due, but it was still a huge step. This may have created a natural affinity between the Czar and Lincoln, atho they never met.

                  I think that the biggest similarity between the US and Russian terrain was the size of the land involved. THere was little fighting west of the Mississippi, most of the real fighting was in rolling woodlands, and close to half the battles were fought in Virginia.
                  hmmm... on the other hand, Georgia and Alabama are similar to Poland; flat, sandy, lots of Pine trees and vacant stares (just kidding!).
                  Like I said, I need to look into this before I shoot my mouth off in the wrong direction, again...

                  BTW- way off topic, but I was just wondering; do they have tornadoes in Russia? The lower Volga region would seem to be a prime location for them.
                  "Why is the Rum gone?"

                  -Captain Jack

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In 1863-64 the same time to Civil War in USA, Russia had their own secesional war - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_Uprising
                    - Your Highness, the enemy is so numerous... they outnumber your army.
                    - My friend, first I beat 'em then I'll count 'em
                    (Polish King Jan III Sobieski during his campaigns)

                    Historia Wojskowa Portal Historyczno-Wojskowy phw.org.pl

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                    • #11
                      I can't read the link that starts this thread, so Im not sure if I am repeating anything here.

                      In the ACW, armies were in contact with each other much longer, campaigns were not longer decided by one day of intense combat, but by a series of engagements. A new level of organization was needed to deal with the level of warfare between strategy (what a general sees on a map miles from the front) and tactics (what a soldier can see by looking around where he is fighting. This is called operations.

                      First delveloped in a theoretical sense by the Soviet military, it actualy had it's origins in the ACW.

                      A. A. Strokov wrote "The American Civil War occupied a prominent place in the history of the art of war. It's witnessed the employment of different operational and tactical methods and forms for waging war and battle. The cumulative experiance developed during the course of the war influenced European armies-" However, the Russians were the only ones that sent an official delegation to the US during the war.

                      Rifled fire-arms forced armies to abandon massed, shoulder-to-shoulder formations. By the end of the war only dispersed, "skirmisher" tactics were being taught. Massive firepower made defense stronger than ever, and lead to many inconclusive battles. General's were forced to rely more on maneuver than even before.

                      The railroad facilitated maneuver in two ways. First, the swift transfer of mass numbers of troops over great distances. Second; logistics. Troops no longer had to forage or use horses to build depots. This meant that armies were able to sustain deep maneuvers; the kind of sweeping, swift offensives that are a feature of modern war.

                      The telegraph was just as important. For the first time, instant communications for command and control of an entire front was available. Thanks to these innovations, the armies were freed of the basic constraints of concentration and limited maneuvers.
                      "Why is the Rum gone?"

                      -Captain Jack

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
                        Spot-on.

                        This was exactly the same time that Czar Nicky was freeing the serf... or in the process of doing so. It may have been long over due, but it was still a huge step. This may have created a natural affinity between the Czar and Lincoln, atho they never met.

                        I think that the biggest similarity between the US and Russian terrain was the size of the land involved. THere was little fighting west of the Mississippi, most of the real fighting was in rolling woodlands, and close to half the battles were fought in Virginia.
                        hmmm... on the other hand, Georgia and Alabama are similar to Poland; flat, sandy, lots of Pine trees and vacant stares (just kidding!).
                        Like I said, I need to look into this before I shoot my mouth off in the wrong direction, again...

                        BTW- way off topic, but I was just wondering; do they have tornadoes in Russia? The lower Volga region would seem to be a prime location for them.
                        Well it was Alexander II who freed the serfs in 1861. Nicholas II was not freeing anyone, quite the contrary....but anyway.

                        No idea about tornadoes. Maybe? I've heard of some on the Black Sea I think...they call them "smerch" kind of like "death" by with a "Ch"..

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                        • #13
                          Has anyone uncovered any information on the Russians role or relationship with the combatants in the ACW?

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