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Voronezh & Steppe Fronts' OB Sept 1 1943

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  • #16
    Sean,

    That is correct about the site. We are going to charge for the individual articles and not the yearly subscription. The articles will be posted on a monthly basis.

    We do have our act together. We're just trying to make it better.

    All the more reason to post it for free?
    A) Eastview is in the business to make money. They have no concept of what they are getting, just they are getting it.
    B) Splitting up books just to post them on the I-net? Because people can't afford the material. That would be the equivalent of giving you a fender from a new car for free because you can't afford the whole new car. Enough said there.

    Craig
    Search in the past, for there you will find your future.

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    • #17
      Sean,

      Avazini and I do the Rifle Divisions only. I also add any smaller stuff plus the VVS units. All I have time for after that is to proof read the other stuff.

      Contact Ravi Rikhye ([email protected]) about the subscription.

      Craig
      Search in the past, for there you will find your future.

      Comment


      • #18
        Craig, most of us are doing this research because it is a hobby. Nobody on this forum is using this material to make money; it's too esoteric to mass-market. It is not a car fender. It's not an object with practical applications for a large number of people. It's historical info. Charging large amounts of money restricts people's access to the info, which in turn discourages individuals' curiosity, learning and research.
        Why shouldn't people share information for free? You yourself ask for "free" info on the Red Army from time to time, so do I, and so do alot of other people here. That is the point of this website. Are you suggesting AMVAS charge us a fee to read posts on this forum which include historical data that cost someone a few bucks to get ahold of? Should AMVAS pay people to post info and then pass this expense on to forum readers?
        I don't mind paying a reasonable amount of money for info. My criticism of Eastview is their failure to properly present the material they have in relation to the prices they are asking. I would eagerly pay $20.00 for Voronezh and Steppe Fronts' OBs for Sept 1 1943. However, I am not eager to spend $250.00 for hundreds of pages of OBs that I don't need. $250 dollars is alot of money to me, especially if I'm only taking advantage of a small part of it.
        To use your analogy, why should I pay for an entire car when all I need is the fender?
        My original post here was "it would be great if someone or a publisher would organize the BSSA OBs into smaller, cheaper sections." Eastview won't do it because they are either too unconcerned about their potential market to do so, or they feel it is more profitable for them to simply sell it as one item for the absolute maximum they think they can get. Either way it sucks. They deal primarily with libraries and institutions which have thousands of dollars to throw around. But they also have a few people like us who do not have thousands of dollars to throw around on Soviet OBs.
        Why don't you and Avanzini break down BSSA and sell it in a format which facilitates extraction of specific dates and Fronts? You would probably be able to get quite a few sales using this method.
        Maybe I'll buy it myself and do it.

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        • #19
          Sean,

          I tried that once. The 22 June 1941 I sold through Nafziger took me 3-4 months to complete. Then I didn't have all the information I do now.

          Even if Avanzini and I split the work, it would take 6 months at least to complete 1 month of data, especially for the 1943 and 1944 years.
          And then with no other time for anything else.

          I ask for the information to confirm the data I have from published sources. If it doesn't jive with what I have, I don't use it.

          Craig
          Search in the past, for there you will find your future.

          Comment


          • #20
            Sean,

            make money? What's that? I haven't made a gain yet, let alone break even, with half maintaining the site and the other half going to Russia.

            Craig
            Search in the past, for there you will find your future.

            Comment


            • #21
              BSSA in smaller chunks

              I was thinking you (JSA and/or Mike) could sell BSSA pages from the CDR version at a cost of say 5 dollars a page to anyone who asks for a certain OB. You wouldn't necessarily have to scan/OCR anything. Simply duplicate the image of the requested pages and email. Judging by the fact that most OB requests on the various forums are small, I would imagine most of us only want one or two Fronts (maybe at most 10 pages) worth at a time, so it would not take 6 mos to prepare and send a couple of pages, if you have the BSSA on CDR. Of course, there's a slight problem about that "Eastview" logo on each page...

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              • #22
                Actually I am working on an English translation of Boveii Coctav right now. The only issue with selling it is if Eastview has their stamp on the bottom of the page. If this is the case than there is a copyright issue. My translations are from a clean copy of Boveii so they should be as accurate as the original researchers who wrote them.
                "Give a soldier an anvil, just a hunk of metal, and drive him out into the desert and leave him. In two weeks - when you go to get him, the anvil will be broken."
                General Creighton Abrams on the need for a soldier proof tank.

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                • #23
                  In that case, I don't think there's a copyright problem. Good luck with translating it, but I still think it would be simpler to provide parts of it- translated or not (it's easy to translate the abbreviations)- on a per-OB-request-basis: in other words, You could immediately create a web site w/ paypal or advertisement of some kind offering to provide specific Fronts/armies from specific dates/months, to whoever wants to pay for that particular OB, at a cost of, say, 10.00 dollars per Front, per month. The individual would ask for the OBs they need, ("Steppe and Voronezh Fronts for Aug-Sep 1943" for example at $40.00 total) and you could sell them.
                  This way you wouldn't have to translate the ENTIRE thing all at once, just the parts people ask for, and you would get paid immediately for your efforts.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by tetsuko47
                    Actually I am working on an English translation of Boveii Coctav right now. The only issue with selling it is if Eastview has their stamp on the bottom of the page. If this is the case than there is a copyright issue. My translations are from a clean copy of Boveii so they should be as accurate as the original researchers who wrote them.
                    As you didn't reply to my mail, repeat the question here...
                    Which "Boyevoi sostav" is it? That one, consisted from 36 volumes, or some other?
                    and is it possible to get it (in russian)?
                    If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

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                    • #25
                      It is a 5 volume set (about 1100 pages). 1 volume for each year covering all fronts, MDs, and rear echelon, STAVKA forces. The only forces not represented are supply, RR, and naval.

                      I apologize to you AMVAS for the mail issue. I will try to be a bit better about it.
                      "Give a soldier an anvil, just a hunk of metal, and drive him out into the desert and leave him. In two weeks - when you go to get him, the anvil will be broken."
                      General Creighton Abrams on the need for a soldier proof tank.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by tetsuko47
                        It is a 5 volume set (about 1100 pages). 1 volume for each year covering all fronts, MDs, and rear echelon, STAVKA forces. The only forces not represented are supply, RR, and naval.

                        I apologize to you AMVAS for the mail issue. I will try to be a bit better about it.
                        Cool in any case! :thumb:
                        Is it in e-form or in prited one?
                        Any ways for me to get this?
                        If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          We may be able to work something out... What sort of info do you have on the VVS - for instance OB and equipment types. I am trying to compile a per regiment listing. I have the regiments but I do not know what equip they had at any given point or how much.
                          "Give a soldier an anvil, just a hunk of metal, and drive him out into the desert and leave him. In two weeks - when you go to get him, the anvil will be broken."
                          General Creighton Abrams on the need for a soldier proof tank.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by tetsuko47
                            We may be able to work something out... What sort of info do you have on the VVS - for instance OB and equipment types. I am trying to compile a per regiment listing. I have the regiments but I do not know what equip they had at any given point or how much.
                            heh, again I sent you mail, and no responce until now. As I'm not able to visit forum every day, I apologise for delay in answers.

                            So, I repeat my mail:
                            Air Forces (VVS) aren't in my occupation I decided to concentrate on land ones.
                            It doesn't mean that I have no materials on Air and Navy forces at all, but their amount is limited.
                            From the good sources I can name Frontline Illustration issue on the first months of air battles, Khazanov's two volume book about the air battle for Moscow and Shavrov's book about all types of Soviet planes (also in 2 volumes)
                            If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I got your email - my work does not always allow me to be near a computer unfortunately.

                              I sent you a return line. I am going to look into this Khazanov series.
                              "Give a soldier an anvil, just a hunk of metal, and drive him out into the desert and leave him. In two weeks - when you go to get him, the anvil will be broken."
                              General Creighton Abrams on the need for a soldier proof tank.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                To Sean

                                Dear Sean,

                                As far as you understand, it's not a hobby, it's a business for some people. Whatever these people say

                                So, I rather bored with dollars and prices.
                                Contact me at [email protected] and I'll help you with some OOBs you need absolutely for free

                                Moreover, we are planning to open soon OOB section in our RKKA site (it will be web-database), absolutely for free also

                                Best Regards
                                Alexander

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