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  • #31
    Originally posted by Andrey
    In my first words I spoke about German losses and German planes which crashed during landing.

    I read in many sources (inc. West) that Germans were not-correct in counting of destroyed enemy planes. For example, during battle of Britain German pilots counted 2 or 3 times more than real amount of destroyed British planes.
    Yep, I have the same info. If to follow German reports about destroyed Russian planes they did eliminated all the Soviet aviation for two or three times

    In reality much soviet planes which were reported to be destroyed even if they were terrible damaged easily were repaired for several days or less by Russian services.

    For example, I personally saw a photo of Soviet plane after landing. It almost had no tail, but a few days later it again was operable :chair: ->
    If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

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    • #32
      Originally posted by amvas
      Yep, I have the same info. If to follow German reports about destroyed Russian planes they did eliminated all the Soviet aviation for two or three times

      In reality much soviet planes which were reported to be destroyed even if they were terrible damaged easily were repaired for several days or less by Russian services.

      For example, I personally saw a photo of Soviet plane after landing. It almost had no tail, but a few days later it again was operable :chair: ->
      Also I read in one source about group of German pilots in North Africa. They flew in mission, shot ammo in the land and then reported that they shot down some amount British planes!!! One German pilot confirmed words of other, everyone was glad. If anyone is interesting, I can to say you their names and unit (I have this information at home).

      Also I read that after war West Allies decided to check data about victories of most famous German aces who fought in West Front. Only some pilots (Priller, for example) had 100% confirmed by West sources victories, average amount of victories confirmed by West sources was 40-80% (I do not remember concrete digits so it canbe mistake) from amount of counted by Germans victories.

      And I spoke not only about heavy damaged planes which flew in mission later.

      Sometimes one destroyed plane was counted for some pilots simultaneously, sometimes plane had only light damages (Germans photo camera could to shoot only hitting not scale of damage from hitting). German aces often used tactic "shoot and run away", in this case it was too difficult to see what was happened with your victim after your attack, they could to register only fact that bullets and shells hited enemy plane.

      In Soviet Air Forces in start of war pilots had only that victories which were confirmed by land troops. Pokryshkin's list of victories doesn't contain some planes which he shot down over enemy territory.

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      • #33
        Re: Re: Re: Re: ...

        Re: Re: Re: ...

        quote:Originally posted by Sheik Yerbouti
        Did you even know that the preliminary strikes by SAF, planned to destroy German planes at airfields, were an utter failure?



        Originally posted by Andrey
        Yes, I know about this.

        I never said that Soviet Air Forces won ALL single combats,Soviet Air Forces won BATTLE.

        According my source most part of attempts of Luftwaffe to bomb rears of Soviet troops before beginning of "Zitadel" were repeled.

        According my source Germans won some first combats on 5 and 6 of July but later Soviet Air Forces changed tactic and began to win. For 4 first days of advance (5-8 of July) both sides lost more than 500 planes (every side), Germans could to fight in Air with such casualties only two more days, later amount of flights of Luftwaffe was decreasing constantly because of shortage of planes and pilots.
        My understanding is that, while certainly many units along the East Front were surprised, others did not get airborne because they were not released and local commanders were afraid to take the inititiative themselve, for fear of the repercussions.
        Mens Est Clavis Victoriae
        (The Mind Is The Key To Victory)

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        • #34
          Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ...

          Originally posted by hogdriver
          Re: Re: Re: ...

          quote:Originally posted by Sheik Yerbouti
          Did you even know that the preliminary strikes by SAF, planned to destroy German planes at airfields, were an utter failure?





          My understanding is that, while certainly many units along the East Front were surprised, others did not get airborne because they were not released and local commanders were afraid to take the inititiative themselve, for fear of the repercussions.
          Sorry, I didn't understand what are you talking about. Do you speak about actions of German aircraft in airfields under Soviet Air attacks?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Andrey
            I live in Russia and it is very expensive for Russia.

            Do you agree to buy PC games for 30-50$ for one game like in West? No, Russian price is 3$ for game.

            Price is in Germany 35-50 for a new game - 1/10th buys it for that price, the rest either copies , buys a secnd-hand example or just waits up to two years when it's down to 2-10 $.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Dingo
              Price is in Germany 35-50 for a new game - 1/10th buys it for that price, the rest either copies , buys a secnd-hand example or just waits up to two years when it's down to 2-10 $.
              To copy PC-game is illegal action - ;-).

              Problem is that people in Russia has relatively low salary in $. I have 200-250$ for a month. Nobody is able to buy PC-games with West cost.

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