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Japan as Peace Maker????

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  • Japan as Peace Maker????

    Well goodness. See what the busy Japanese diplomats were up to in 1943. I'd never seen this story before. Has it been well know to Soviet or Russian historians? Or is it a error filled misinterpretation by a unscrouplous hack writer?

    http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20050829/41247818.html

    Whatever the truth I am sure it will generate lots of heat and smoke on these discussion boards.

  • #2
    I read about it a lot of time ago...
    I think Japanese tried too late, because in 1943 nobody believed at German's victory
    "In case of war guys in dark blue berets will be thrown in a mouth to an aggressor on purpose to break off this mouth"
    Vasily Margelov the father-founder of the Soviet airborne troops

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    • #3
      They had no chances

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      • #4
        "I read about it a lot of time ago..."

        Ah, ...along time ago.. can be many years or last month. I'll think years in your case. It seems historians in the US have been ignorant of this episode. Despite that many other items from Oshimas intercepted messages have been included in published analysis. This perhaps is natural as so many details of Japanese politics and diplomacy are still not published much here. Unlike the nazis where every detail is studied to boredom. But, , so it is also odd this has not appeared in



        "I think Japanese tried too late, because in 1943 nobody believed at German's victory"


        "They had no chances"

        Certainly, we know this from our studies of history. Perhaps the Japanese diplomats understood the true situation, or perhaps they thought the USSR weaker than in reality. Whatever the case they thought it should be attempted.
        Last edited by Carl Schwamberg; 28 Apr 08, 20:14.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
          Ah, ...along time ago.. can be many years or last month. I'll think years in your case.
          I read about it in "The Pacific premiere" by C.& E.Peresleginy half year ago.


          Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
          Certainly, we know this from our studies of history. Perhaps the Japanese diplomats understood the true situation, or perhaps they thought the USSR weaker than in reality. Whatever the case they thought it should be attempted.
          After Japanese lose the Battle for Midway they tried to resolve a strategy deadlock. Maybe they thought Germany would shatter Britain if Germany made peace with USSR

          Now we can guess or search for documents only
          "In case of war guys in dark blue berets will be thrown in a mouth to an aggressor on purpose to break off this mouth"
          Vasily Margelov the father-founder of the Soviet airborne troops

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          • #6
            Originally posted by SunCat View Post
            I read about it in "The Pacific premiere" by C.& E.Peresleginy half year ago.
            Naturaly I have not heard of that title or author. Can you briefly decribe the content of it?

            thanks

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
              Naturaly I have not heard of that title or author. Can you briefly decribe the content of it?

              thanks
              It is the book about war in Pacific ocean, in the book was made a detailed analysis of strategic decisions
              I like aircraft carriers and I try to read all about them

              I could not find any translations into English
              "In case of war guys in dark blue berets will be thrown in a mouth to an aggressor on purpose to break off this mouth"
              Vasily Margelov the father-founder of the Soviet airborne troops

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              • #8
                To bad. My Russian is much to weak to make use of such a book. I suspect the Russian language historians have made use of records showing some political aspects not usually metioned in the American books. As I mentioned earlier the details of internal Japanese politics & point of view is not covered very completely in the books I've read. Another perspective would be interesting.

                And what did this book have to say about the aircraft carriers?

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                • #9
                  I tried to find informations about Japanese peace mediation
                  I found it:

                  В. Martin. Deutschland und Japan im zweiten Weltkrieg.
                  Gottingen Zurich Frankfurt a/M., 1969

                  In the beginning of 1943 the Japanese naval attache in Stockholm has undertaken Attempts in the organisation of the germano-Soviet contacts. However similar attempts have not led to success. On March, 11th Hitler have instructed to stop any discussion with representatives of Japan of possibility of peace talks. In the first of April the Japanese government has been advised of forthcoming offensive of fascist armies around Kursk

                  Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
                  And what did this book have to say about the aircraft carriers?
                  In the book describe the primary fights between aircraft carriers by the minute (almost): Coral sea, Midway and other
                  I think this book is the best book about aircraft carriers battles on Russian,
                  from those books that I read
                  "In case of war guys in dark blue berets will be thrown in a mouth to an aggressor on purpose to break off this mouth"
                  Vasily Margelov the father-founder of the Soviet airborne troops

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                  • #10
                    SunCat...have you read much of the English language literature on the aircraft carrier war? I'm curious about any contrast in view between Russian & Western historians.

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                    • #11
                      I know English bad and I can't read english books for the present...

                      I read books by S.E. Morrison about the war in the Pacific but these books were translated into Russian.
                      Morrison wrote about battles and he did not make a strategic analysis. "The Pacific premiere" tell about strategic decisions and consequences these decisions. I see difference at battle descriptions because russian authors used sources unavailable for Morrison.
                      "The Pacific premiere" criticize General Douglas MacArthur.
                      McArthur had pressed a invasion in Philippines and US forces lost one year in hard battles. An alternative variant was invasion in Taiwan. This variant was more better, anyway authors of "The Pacific premiere" think so.
                      "In case of war guys in dark blue berets will be thrown in a mouth to an aggressor on purpose to break off this mouth"
                      Vasily Margelov the father-founder of the Soviet airborne troops

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                      • #12
                        Actually many western and American historians also think Macarthur was wrong. I think so to for many other reasons besides.

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                        • #13
                          Ah yes, the MacAurthur controversy. Ellis wrote in 'Brute Force' favoring MacAurthrs strategy, judging it more effcient than the King/Nimitz use of the old Orange war plan. Formosa or Taiwan was considered by by both sides of the argument as a stratigic objective, but was set aside in favor of Okinawa.

                          The 'Pacific War of 1941-45' by John Costello I'd recomend as a recent study of the political and military strategy of the Pacific war. Costello follows how the economics and politics of the 1920s & 1930s influenced the stratigic conduct of the Pacific was, and he provides related usefull detail on the campaigns and battles.

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                          • #14
                            I gave an one example from this book...

                            to Carl Schwamberg
                            Did you solve your question about japan peacemakers?
                            "In case of war guys in dark blue berets will be thrown in a mouth to an aggressor on purpose to break off this mouth"
                            Vasily Margelov the father-founder of the Soviet airborne troops

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                            • #15
                              Solve? Here & there I found a few more bits of information. Some will eventually prove usefull others nyet. I suspose this is progress.

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