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  • 62nd Army War Diary - Translation project

    Those of you who have followed my posts know that I am full of projects regarding the VOV, particularly Stalingrad.

    The problem for me is deciding which one to concentrate my efforts on. Well, I think a major part of my work now will be this...

    I got hold of the 62nd Army war diaries for Sept-Dec 1942 and I intend to translate them and put them online as a public resource.

    I have just started on sept 1st and am already running into a lot of Russian military abbreviations which I do not understand. With the help of http://militera.lib.ru/docs/da/berlin_45/20.html I have solved most of them but there is one which is bugging me..... "зап."

    e.g.
    169 ТБр из подчинения 35 Гв. СД выбыла и сосредоточилась в районе выс. 81.0, 125.0, МТФ /зап. АЛЕКСЕЕВКА/.
    From this context I suppose it might be 'West' but, in that case, what is an MTF?

    So far I have "169th tank Brigade withdrew from its subordination to the 35th Guards Rifle Division and concentrated in the region of Hills 81.0 and 125.0, MTF /zap. ALEKSEEVKA/."

    Any ideas?

    BTW I will start posting these on my webbie along with the original photocopies of the diaries as soon as I have a day or two knocked out.
    Last edited by Nestor Makhno; 10 Feb 08, 08:08.

  • #2
    Hi,

    Originally posted by Nestor Makhno View Post
    Those of you who have followed my posts know that I am full of projects regarding the VOV, particularly Stalingrad.

    The problem for me is deciding which one to concentrate my efforts on. Well, I think a major part of my work now will be this...

    I got hold of the 62nd Army war diaries for Sept-Dec 1942 and I intend to translate them and put them online as a public resource.
    If I'm right you got those from Sergei... He owns those diaries and sells them worldwide...
    I also have a pack of those together with battle schemes...

    but I also have many other original TsAMO records, which Sergei has no...
    But they costs MUCH more...
    Index of them you can find here
    http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/raw.htm

    I have just started on sept 1st and am already running into a lot of Russian military abbreviations which I do not understand. With the help of http://militera.lib.ru/docs/da/berlin_45/20.html I have solved most of them but there is one which is bugging me..... "зап."
    "зап." means West from...

    e.g.

    From this context I suppose it might be 'West' but, in that case, what is an MTF?
    MTF - молочно-товарная ферма
    In other words, farm

    So far I have "169th tank Brigade withdrew from its subordination to the 35th Guards Rifle Division and concentrated in the region of Hills 81.0 and 125.0, MTF /zap. ALEKSEEVKA/."
    Any ideas?
    ...125.0 farm West from Alexeevka...

    More abbreviations get from my page.
    They are tons of them!

    Regards
    Alex
    If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

    Comment


    • #3
      It looks like that would be a "dairy farm" specifically then. Do you think I could get a copy of those diaries when I arrive in Volgograd? I am wondering if I should just plow through them in Russian or wait for your translation. Personally I am thinking about in the future translating some of Rodimtsev's memoirs, but so far I only have online versions of Guardsmen Stood to the Death and Under the Sky of Spain. What I need for my main project is a copy of Tvoya Rodina, Synok, because this supposedly contains details about Rodimtsev's airborne training and experience, according to Glantz's The Soviet Airborne Experience.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Cmde.Slavyanski View Post
        It looks like that would be a "dairy farm" specifically then.
        Exactly

        Do you think I could get a copy of those diaries when I arrive in Volgograd?
        I won't be so optimistic...

        I am wondering if I should just plow through them in Russian or wait for your translation.
        Seems to see them in English is more realistic

        Regards
        Alex
        If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

        Comment


        • #5
          [QUOTE=amvas;859163


          Seems to see them in English is more realistic

          Regards
          Alex[/QUOTE]

          Hey now, I'm already reading Rodimtsev's memoirs in Russian.

          Comment


          • #6
            OK - well here is the first page:

            http://tonygillham.com/stalingrad/wd62a/sep42/sep1

            This ended up being a hell of a lot harder than I imagined so I doubt I will be doing 'a day a day' but I will hopefully get better at it as I get used to the staff officers' idioms and shorthand.

            Comment


            • #7
              I translated a good portion, about 70 pages, of archival documents for Jason Mark's latest book "Island of Fire". It isn't easy
              "This isn't Paris, you will not get through here with a Marching Parade!" Defenders of Stalingrad
              "Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out... and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel.... And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man" - with his mouth". Mark Twain
              "It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets. Voltaire

              Comment


              • #8
                Yup, I've found that I can translate memoirs from books and journals about 5-10 times quicker than the kind of abbreviated, idiomatic language used in these diaries.

                I am getting a bit quicker - for example my fingers can translate "с задачей уничтожения противника" without any intervention from my brain, leaving it free to think about football and food.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Have you guys ever heard of a program called Deja Vu? Apparently it's a really good translator. I was thinking of using it for private translation on the side(not military related stuff). I figure I can either sit there translating line-by-line, wasn't an assload of time, or just computer-translate and fix up the cock-ups easily, since I know how to translate well. When it comes to making money, I'm not really in a mood to go through things line by line.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've used Deja Vu but never for translating, how exactly does that work? If I have Russian text on the computer I sometimes use online translators and fix it up, I've found that to be pretty efficient.
                    "This isn't Paris, you will not get through here with a Marching Parade!" Defenders of Stalingrad
                    "Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out... and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel.... And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man" - with his mouth". Mark Twain
                    "It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets. Voltaire

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Kunikov View Post
                      I've used Deja Vu but never for translating, how exactly does that work? If I have Russian text on the computer I sometimes use online translators and fix it up, I've found that to be pretty efficient.
                      I assume that whatever this program is that I have been offered, is most likely a little better than online translators, which generally suck. But since I would be dealing with simple business documents it makes sense to use a computer translator and then just clean it up. Often times, aside from basic grammar issues, I just have a look at the original when there is a major clusterf#$k, and straighten it out. I was able to translate Russian long before I was even conversant.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cmde.Slavyanski View Post
                        Have you guys ever heard of a program called Deja Vu? Apparently it's a really good translator. I was thinking of using it for private translation on the side(not military related stuff). I figure I can either sit there translating line-by-line, wasn't an assload of time, or just computer-translate and fix up the cock-ups easily, since I know how to translate well. When it comes to making money, I'm not really in a mood to go through things line by line.
                        DjVu program is not for translating. It's a pecial software like Adobe Acrobat for compressing text and graphical files in DjVu format...
                        http://www.lizardtech.com/

                        regards
                        Alex
                        If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If any of you translation aficionados out there fancy a crack at a day from these diaries, let me know and I will upload the images for you - just name a day.

                          When you're done you can e-mail me the text. I will credit you on the site.

                          I only have Sept 1st, 18th and 19th up so far and I may return to these as I become more conversant with 62Aese. So there are plenty of days from Sept-Dec 1942 to choose from.

                          http://tonygillham.com/stalingrad/wd62a

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by amvas View Post
                            DjVu program is not for translating. It's a pecial software like Adobe Acrobat for compressing text and graphical files in DjVu format...
                            http://www.lizardtech.com/

                            regards
                            Alex
                            I must have misheard the name when the guy told me about it, he was walking down some stairs when he told me.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              OK - 20th September is up - any takers for translating duties?

                              Comment

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