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Your Favorite Russian Heavy Tank (WWII)

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  • #31
    Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
    Thanks mate, that's very helpful too. This interpretation gives us a total of eight "losses in combat".

    I noticed a discrepancy between your link and the one posted by serg. The tanks lost to enemy action are shown as 68th Regiment in his source, but as 67th Regiment in yours.

    But at least now, we can see that tank #339-68 was destroyed by shells; so far, that's the only case I can see from either source where a specific cause of destruction by the enemy is actually shown.
    Yes, there exists such a misunderstanding...
    I really don't know the exact answer...
    If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

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    • #32
      Originally posted by amvas View Post
      "Yes, there exists such a misunderstanding...
      I really don't know the exact answer..."
      Hey, that's no problem, mate. The information you and serg have provided has been very helpful indeed and has added much to my knowledge of what happened to the T-35s.


      Best regards,
      panther3485
      "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

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      • #33
        The T-35 was the one the Germans nicknamed Kinder-something, any way it meant child scarer. Maybe they weren't impressed.

        I doubt they had such a name for the KV1 - or the later heavies either.

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        • #34
          I am pretty sure most of these names and jokes stopped as soon as the first T-34 and then the first winter hit and members of the 'Macht were dying of congealed anus because it was too cold to take a crap.

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          • #35
            I voted for the the IS series. The IS2 is my favorite Russian "Heavy".
            It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.-George S. Patton

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Brummbar33 View Post
              I voted for the the IS series. The IS2 is my favorite Russian "Heavy".

              Agree !!! Chuikov said that, the 122 mm gun of IS-2 could penetrate even the armour of the King Tiger, and it was extremely effective agains panzer counter-attack.
              "My only desire is that all of our Party and people, closely united in struggle, construct a peaceful, unified, independent, democratic and prosperous, and make a valiant contribution to the world Revolution" - Ho Chi Minh's will

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              • #37
                Tried, but no luck so far.

                Originally posted by RGA View Post
                "Agree !!! Chuikov said that, the 122 mm gun of IS-2 could penetrate even the armour of the King Tiger, and it was extremely effective against panzer counter-attack."
                I have been searching for documented, proven cases of the 122mm gun having penetrated the frontal armour of Tiger II in combat. So far I have been unsuccessful. Can you point me to any sources which prove, beyond dispute, that this ever happened?
                "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

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                • #38
                  KV-1 no question.

                  "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
                    I have been searching for documented, proven cases of the 122mm gun having penetrated the frontal armour of Tiger II in combat. So far I have been unsuccessful. Can you point me to any sources which prove, beyond dispute, that this ever happened?
                    Or, a Tiger I. Or, for that matter, a Panther.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by joea View Post
                      Even if Scott is correct about the KV-2, I still voted for it just cause it looks so cool with that huge square turret. Plus the incident during the early part of the war when one stood at a crossroads and the Nazis just could not destroy it.
                      Actually, 2 very different Kv-2's existed. I like the 2nd one better. Although dubbed as experimental, photos showed as many as 100 probably existed. It did not have a square turret.

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                      • #41
                        Still searching.....

                        Originally posted by Barbarossa View Post
                        "Or, a Tiger I. Or, for that matter, a Panther."
                        We can assess the frontal armour of Tiger I and Panther, and readily see how the known capabilities of the more potent Allied weapons that were used later in the war could have penetrated them. (This applies without question to pretty much all of the front of Tiger I and the turret front/mantlet of Panther; the Panther's glacis was more resistant but still penetrated on occasion.) The Soviet 122mm does fall well and truly within that group of weapons but of course there are some others, including the British 17pdr, US 90mm and Soviet 100mm.

                        This 'theoretical' capability is supported by perfectly adequate proof that on certain occasions, such penetrations and resultant destruction of these two German types did indeed occur.

                        The frontal protection of Tiger II, however, was an entire league above that of Tiger I and Panther. In theory, it should have been close to impervious against the Soviet 122mm, although IIRC, the Soviet 100mm should have been able to penetrate the turret front with the right shot within a reasonable range. (IIRC, their 100mm was superior in outright anti-armour performance to their 122mm, but the latter had a much better HE capability and was a better 'general purpose' gun.) That said, the Tiger II's turret front does present quite a small target.

                        However, according to Jentz, there is not one single recorded proven instance of the frontal armour of Tiger II being penetrated by any tank or anti-tank gun in combat, Western Allied or Soviet.

                        That is the difference, and I am still searching for proof that it ever happened.
                        Last edited by panther3485; 27 Jan 08, 03:52.
                        "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Barbarossa View Post
                          Actually, 2 very different Kv-2's existed. I like the 2nd one better. Although dubbed as experimental, photos showed as many as 100 probably existed. It did not have a square turret.
                          According to Zaloga, by the time production ended in October 1941 some 334 KV-2s had been built; in two basic types (referred to as 'Model 1939' and 'Model 1940' in some references.) The 'Model 1939' was the one with the more complex turret, which had a v-shaped rear and tapered front, together with a ribbed and bolted trunnion shield for the gun. It was produced only in very small numbers and was not the standard production version.

                          Production was standardised on the 'Model 1940', which had the more familiar, simplified squarish-looking turret with the one-piece flat rear plate. The vast majority of KV-2s were built to this configuration.

                          'KV-1 & 2 Heavy Tanks 1941-1945', Steven Zaloga, Jim Kinnear & Peter Sarson, Osprey, 1995

                          'Stalin's Heavy Tanks 1941-1945 - The KV and IS Heavy Tanks', Steven Zaloga, Jim Kinnear, Andrey Aksenov & Aleksandr Koshchavtsev, Concord, 1997
                          Last edited by panther3485; 27 Jan 08, 04:22.
                          "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

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                          • #43
                            Didn't know that about the KV-2's! Cool.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Emil_G View Post
                              "Didn't know that about the KV-2's! Cool."
                              Here's a drawing of the early model, built in very small numbers:



                              And the mainstream production version:


                              (Both pics courtesy of the Osprey volume, 'KV-1 & 2 Heavy Tanks 1941-1945', Steve Zaloga, Jim Kinnear & Peter Sarson, 1995)
                              Last edited by panther3485; 27 Jan 08, 07:02.
                              "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Well it looks that the KV-1 is our winner here, so lets recap, according to us here on ACG -

                                Most favored Soviet light is - the T-70
                                Most favored Soviet heavy is - the KV-1

                                I suppose doing a medium tank poll is pointeless since there would only be 2contestants, and I just don't see the T-28 winning over the T-34. I guess there can be some discussion on the different versions of the T-34 but, I think maybe instead next I should do an armored car/vehicle poll? What does everyone think?

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