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Need some help on a Russian translation....

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  • Need some help on a Russian translation....

    Alex kindly provided me with this

    http://www.zshare.net/download/6271684efae9f5/


    It is a rare book on Russian tank tactics that may have some information that I am looking for. And you might have guessed, it is for a WW II game that I play.
    Long story short, the Bagration Operation Battle books are coming out in Late fall of this year. IF, there is to be a rule change for the Russian Tank forces in it, in regards to a Hen and Chick Move and fire range of movement. There has to be some documentation on improved tactics, crews and/or commanders for some of the Russian forces that were in it at some point, 1944 and on.

    So, gentlemen, would there be anyone out there who could take a look at this and see what is in it, that may help me, and others out on this "little" problem I have?

    Cheers, thanks for your time and hopefull help on this, let me know, if you would please.

    Tom

  • #2
    Emil G

    Here it is, this one please.

    Cheers, thanks buddy!!!

    Tom

    Comment


    • #3
      Compliments of Emil G, so far, I

      have the actual name and who wrote it so far, a good start for me!!!

      Tactics in Battle Examples (Battalion)

      Under the editorial leadership of lieutenant-General E.T. Marchenko, Military publishing house of the USSR Ministry of Defense, Moscow 1974.

      Cheers, thanks again buddy, I'm looking forward to more when you have time!!

      Tom

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      • #4
        Some more info from my friend Emil G

        Some chapter titles

        - Offensive combat, the basic organization of conducting offensives during the years of the Patriatic war.

        - Offensive of a Rifle Battalion with penetration of prepared enemy defensive positions.

        - Combat of a Rifle Battalion to secure an anchor point during the penitration of enemy defensive positions.

        - Advance of a Battailion with penitration of enemy defenses.

        - Combat of a reinforce Rifle Battalion for an enemy anchor point.

        - The securing of an enemy anchor point by a Riflr Battalion in the deep penitration of enemy defensive positions.

        - Batttalion actions in Avant-garde during the securing of an important anchor point in the enemy rear.

        - Advance of a tank Battalion in times when the enemy switches position from offensive to defensive.

        Cheers, more titles later...... Thanks again Emil G!!!

        Tom

        Comment


        • #5
          The rest that deal with Russian tank tactics.....

          - The attack of the tank Batalion on hastily occupied enemy defense positions.

          - The actions of a tank Battalion of a forward detachment during the securing of a defended river crossing.

          - Advance of a Tank Battalion at night.

          - The advance of a tank Battalion during winter.

          - The actions of a tank Battalion during a penitration of enemy defensive positions in forested, swampy terrain.

          - The pursuit of a retreating enemy and conducting a meeting engagement with a reinforced tank Battalion.

          - The actions of a tank Battalion of a forward detachment during the securing of a river crossing.

          -
          The actions of a forward detachment tank Battalion and conducting a meeting engagement.

          - The actions of a reinforced tank Battalion in avat-garde in forested/swamy terrain conditions.

          Cheers

          Tom

          Comment


          • #6
            Marchenko also produced another volume published the same year, Tactics in Combat Example - Company.

            rna
            Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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            • #7
              Thanks R.N. Armstrong

              I will have to ask Alex if he has a link to that one as well, when he is less busy.
              Any thoughts on these two books would be very helpfull, when you might have some spare time that is.

              Cheers, thanks again!!

              Tom

              Comment


              • #8
                It seems that I am at a standstill

                after getting some information from some very kind members here, I will post what they had to say, along with what I am really looking for, as to changing a game rule and see if that sparks any interest on this topic.

                Cheers, later tonight

                Tom

                Comment


                • #9
                  What I have now.........

                  From my buddy Emil

                  A summary from Emil from the Russian book on succesfull Russian tank attacks which includes the following.

                  Co-ordination/communication
                  Terrain based strategy
                  Flanking
                  Surprise
                  Recon
                  Support
                  Quick and bold initiave of commanders and their subordinates

                  Seeing as how all or most of these things were a ploblem earlier in the war, no wonder the increase in by 1944, these were beneficial. I think most likely a personal comment from Emil.

                  From R.N. Armstrong

                  At the tactical level, it is always very situational and the choice is not always rational.

                  A comment in general of his on this subject


                  Then on page 77 tank platoons capturing a crossing site.

                  The tank platoon fires on the move against enemy machinegun positions.

                  A great emphasis on supressing fire while closing in for the direct attack, if only arty could not be used in close co-ordination.

                  Thank you both gentlemen for the effort on this.

                  Cheers, could anyone else add to this interesting (I hope to others) topic?

                  I will give the "game rule" on my next post.

                  Tom

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TRDG View Post
                    I think most likely a personal comment from Emil.
                    Yes. It was. There were definitely no straightforward statements like that in the paper that I saw. If there were, it would've made things a lot easier!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I thought so

                      And I figured you would correct me if that was'nt the case, thanks again!!

                      The Flames of War rule as of now, by the book.

                      Under Russian charactoristics/ special rules

                      Hen and Chicks

                      "Soviet tank losses were incredible. In 1942, they built 10,000 light tanks, 12,000 medium tanks, and 2,000 heavy tanks, and recieved 4,500 more from Britain, Canada and America. They lost 16,000 of them, far more tanks than any other army even possessed!

                      The only way the Red Army could keep up with such losses was to rush tank crews into battle with minimal training. Combined with a lack of radios and a preference for going into battle with all hatches closed, this resulted in Soviet tanks blindly following their company commander.

                      Thus, when the company moves at speed, the tank commanders are so focused on keeping in formation that they cannot locate targets at the same time.

                      If any Soviet Tank, transport, assault gun and armoured transport in a company moves more than 6 inches (regular tank movement is 12 inches) in their movement step, none of the tank teams in the company can shoot in their shooting step."

                      This goes through the late-War period as well, 44-45.

                      I want to change that 6 inch Hen and Chick rule to an 8 inch move and fire (for an extra amount of points), instead of the 6 inch one now. This would reflect the better crews and commanders, more radios and lessons learned from previous combat in Russia against the Germans.

                      The only thing that changes for Russia in the Late-War period besides better machines, is a better experience level, but no change to Hen and Chick. Thsi book may have something in it that can give me, and the designer, some "written proof" that this is in fact the case. The Guards do not suffer from this Hen and Chick, so they would not count here for this.

                      Cheers, any thoughts?

                      Tom

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        What speed does 8inches per movement turn account for? Ofcourse you can fire on the move always but if going max speed your most likely to fire into the air instead. So to be able to fire on the move you can only go X inches per turn IMO.

                        Not the same thing here I guess, but on PBV302 which im trained on, for firing with the 20mm (unstab and no lead on it) the driver are allowed to drive max 15km/h. for a 76.2 or 85mm I guess that rule should be there as well in some way.

                        Just a though...

                        /Thomas
                        http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...ussianppsh.jpg
                        www.reenactor.se

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Whoa! I think it's a bad rule that definitely cripples any Russian player. Take a game like Combat Mission - regardless of crew quality or the presence of radio you can still move any way you like. Although, with low quality crews complicated maneuvers would take a long time.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Not quite guys

                            Ther is no time involved in moving, if you move, you only get a one rate of fire, compared to two, if you don't. 12 inches is the basic movement rate for any medium tank. So any movement and firing could be a move, stop and shoot, then move again in a single turn.

                            There is a balance going on in the game, you can field about 10 T-34s per platoon, compared to about 5 Pz IV Gs for about the same points. The Germans are harder to hit, while the Russians are a little easier, but, they have the numbers. But they also have the Hen and Chick rule to deal with........ But by Bagration and onwards (really after Kursk I beleave), the crews and commanders realized through extensive combat that there is a better way to combat the Panzers, among other things in the German army.

                            Cheers, thanks for the posts!!

                            Tom

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well I think you might be overemphasising Russian numbers and forcing the Russian player to use a clumsy, 'swamp 'em' strategy, no?

                              Comment

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