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Hey Guys I beat Nimitz!

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  • Hey Guys I beat Nimitz!

    Sorry, I tried, I got great info from Andrey, R.N. Armstrong, Egorka and others and my own reading but I still failed to convince the guy. I bet if we put him in a time machine and sent him back he would not change his mind.

    http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...2051013406/p/2

    Either this a particularly bad case or I can't even use other's information to argue properly.

    Uggh I think Nimitz made his mind up from the start and just wanted us to show he was "debating" when he hardly reads the other posts. Just wanted a foil to show he "won" his debate rather than just post his dribble and have others fawn over it. Oh well.
    Last edited by joea; 22 Nov 07, 09:59. Reason: dumb spelling mistake

  • #2
    I've observed that sort often. Back before the days of the internet when these debates were common in the game clubs those gents would often become angry loud and abusive as evidence was placed before them. I suspect it may have nothing to do with belief in a argument or thesis, but rather belief in one own infalibility. Rarer is the sort of person who argues for the joy of watching you work hard at counter arguments and who take pleasure in finding weaknesses in your rhetoric. The validity of the evidence or logic of the hypothesis is irrelevant to that person. They are interested in manipulating the dialoge itself.

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    • #3
      Joea,

      Get my advice: forget about it. You can not make others change their mind and you should not try.

      You made a great job writing all that info and many other people will read it looking through the forums. That is more important than just one guy.

      Cheers!
      Kind regards
      Igor

      * My grandfathers WW2 memoirs - Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, 1944-1945.
      * On the question of "2 mil. rapes" by RKKA
      * Verdicts of RKKA Military Tribunals for crimes against civilians in 1945

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      • #4
        Originally posted by joea View Post

        Uggh I think Nimitz made his mind up from the start and just wanted us to show he was "debating" when he hardly reads the other posts. Just wanted a foil to show he "won" his debate rather than just post his dribble and have others fawn over it. Oh well.
        After following the last thread closely I can say you made a good effort but remember the old saying 'There are none so blind as them that don't want to see'.
        Wolster

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        • #5
          Originally posted by joea View Post
          ... I think Nimitz made his mind up from the start...
          that's because he's in fact a bigot,
          let's take a careful look at what he posts:
          ''... Zukhov personnally authorized intelligence gathering missions that were conducted by marching political prisoner and other malcontents up to German lines, in column of twos, and watch the positioning of German machine gun and artillery by the direction and locatrion of fire that mowed them all down.''
          indeed, this Nimitz guy just hates all things Russian.

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          • #6
            You failed..... Say Hello to Siberia and Goodbye to your life.....

            Well, anyway that guy seems to be an idiot, Ive talked to a few in my life but just now I just dont bother with them anymore...

            /Thomas
            http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...ussianppsh.jpg
            www.reenactor.se

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            • #7
              I wouldn't say "failed".

              It is obvious that you punched him full of holes that he could not plug. He did not answer because he had no answers. His solution to save face was first to try to bow out by being courteous while declaring himself a winner, when that didn't work, he went on to sabotage the thread until he finally got it locked. I think he lost the debate and he knows it himself.
              Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

              Prayers.

              BoRG

              http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

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              • #8
                NIMITZ1967 IS BANNED!!!

                http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...5/m/6831001116

                Ohhhh yea!!!!

                I guess I helped show him up for the **** he is. You guys share the glory too, thanks for the help, "amateur historian" my a#$.

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                • #9
                  Congrats joea, I was going to give you rep until I read what you put in the 'We have won' thread.

                  Wolster

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                  • #10
                    Reminds me of all the storys I've heard of a commander despairing of victory & deciding to quit the battle, then as he looks towrds the enemy sees them raising a white flag or fleeing the battle.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by joea View Post
                      Sorry, I tried, I got great info from Andrey, R.N. Armstrong, Egorka and others and my own reading but I still failed to convince the guy. I bet if we put him in a time machine and sent him back he would not change his mind.

                      http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...2051013406/p/2

                      Either this a particularly bad case or I can't even use other's information to argue properly.

                      Uggh I think Nimitz made his mind up from the start and just wanted us to show he was "debating" when he hardly reads the other posts. Just wanted a foil to show he "won" his debate rather than just post his dribble and have others fawn over it. Oh well.
                      I told you you were wasting your time. What I've discovered in my 'online career' debating WWII are that there are 3 types of people:

                      1) Ignorant zealots, which you've just experienced.

                      2) People like you who are genuinely interested in learning and understanding something they have little knowledge about. They have an open mind and like to hear all sides.

                      3) Those like R.N. Armstrong, to a degree me, and a few others here. We are knowledgeable but still keep an open mind when someone debates with us. Usually I'll, and I would assume the others as well, will listen to the other side and show due respect to opinions that might contradict what we know.

                      But, and this applies very much to me, I cannot stand it when ignorance tries to prove me wrong and asks me to support facts and ideas that are common knowledge to those who have studied the subject area as long as I have, usually these people belong to group 1. So, today I try to only talk/debate with people in groups 2 and 3.
                      "This isn't Paris, you will not get through here with a Marching Parade!" Defenders of Stalingrad
                      "Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out... and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel.... And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man" - with his mouth". Mark Twain
                      "It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.” Voltaire

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by stalin View Post
                        that's because he's in fact a bigot,
                        let's take a careful look at what he posts:
                        ''... Zukhov personnally authorized intelligence gathering missions that were conducted by marching political prisoner and other malcontents up to German lines, in column of twos, and watch the positioning of German machine gun and artillery by the direction and locatrion of fire that mowed them all down.''
                        indeed, this Nimitz guy just hates all things Russian.
                        Did no one notice that if the machine guns 'mowed them all down' then they wouldn't be able to report any so called 'intelligence'?
                        Last edited by Kunikov; 24 Nov 07, 09:19.
                        "This isn't Paris, you will not get through here with a Marching Parade!" Defenders of Stalingrad
                        "Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out... and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel.... And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man" - with his mouth". Mark Twain
                        "It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.” Voltaire

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                        • #13
                          Hey, joea, you have fully become a Red

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kunikov View Post
                            Did no one notice that if the machine guns 'mowed them all down' then they wouldn't be able to report any so called 'intelligence'?
                            There is Intelligence by Combat (it is the word-to-word translation of Russian Razvedka Boem).

                            While a unit was attacking enemy positions a few special officers-observers looked on the enemy fortifications and defined the places of the shooting machine guns and guns, the exact disposition of enemy trenches and bunkers from a safe place.

                            So technically it was possible to do the described by Nimitz actions.
                            Last edited by Andrey; 26 Nov 07, 00:34.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Kunikov View Post
                              Did no one notice that if the machine guns 'mowed them all down' then they wouldn't be able to report any so called 'intelligence'?
                              I believe what that guy Nimitz was trying to imply was that the men was marched out to be human bait so that Zhukov and his officers can observe the position and strength of fire from safe observation points.

                              EDIT: Sorry Andrey, I did not see your post when I first replied.
                              Last edited by Salinator; 26 Nov 07, 00:58.
                              Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

                              Prayers.

                              BoRG

                              http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

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