Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

T-44 and JS3 in combat?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • T-44 and JS3 in combat?

    Is there any proof of either the T-44 Medium Tank or JS3 Heavy Tank ever being in actual combat? I've heard that the JS3 was used at the end and the Germans probably claimed to destroy them, but not in a serious battle study.

    Also why replace the T-44 entirely instead of upgrade it to the T-34/85?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Swampwolf
    ...Also why replace the T-44 entirely instead of upgrade it to the T-34/85?
    Well, I believe something like 200 T-44s were built before the end of the war in Germany. Armour was thicker and the silhouette lower. The predecessor of the T54/55 series.

    The Soviets claimed the IS-3 saw action but I have never seen anything in print in English that confirms this. This one freaked out the allied generals when they saw it on parade in Berlin.
    The Purist

    Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

    Comment


    • #3
      I heard

      that the Stalin 3s had a little action against the Rising Sun just before WW II ended, a test was hinted at along those lines. But nothing as to where he got it from in a post on another forum.
      I know nothing on T44 medium, not a shock there!

      Cheers

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Swampwolf View Post
        Is there any proof of either the T-44 Medium Tank or JS3 Heavy Tank ever being in actual combat? I've heard that the JS3 was used at the end and the Germans probably claimed to destroy them, but not in a serious battle study.
        AFAIK there are not any documents confirming that. As well as actions IS-3 against Japan. Rumors only.

        I heard T-44 had some combat testing before it was adopted but never was in real action in WWII.

        Originally posted by Swampwolf View Post
        Also why replace the T-44 entirely instead of upgrade it to the T-34/85?
        There was such attempt - T-34/100 but T-44 was considered as more modern tank with torsion suspension, central position of turret and other composition benefits which couldn't be realized with T-34. But anyway T-54 beat them all - 100 mm gun decided
        Last edited by Rambow; 22 Oct 07, 02:54.

        Comment


        • #5
          There is no known evidence, much less proof, of the IS-3 having seen combat in WW2 and certainly not against the Germans. The general consensus among the better informed armour enthusiasts today is that none occurred.

          I've not seen/heard of any such evidence in connection with T-44 either, but I remain receptive if anyone out there can point to such evidence.
          Last edited by panther3485; 22 Oct 07, 03:37.
          "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
          Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

          Comment


          • #6
            Neither T-44, nor IS-3 were used in fights of WWII at any theatre.
            I never heard even about usage of pre-series vehicles of that types.

            No debts there were no IS-3 tanks used agasint Japan in 1945.

            So, further discussion is useless enough, IMHO

            If you like, you can trace production of those tanks in my table
            http://www.rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.c...production.htm

            Have to add those tanks were raw enough and initially had many problems. Maybe that was the reason why they haven't been employed in action.

            Regards
            Alex
            If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by amvas View Post
              Neither T-44, nor IS-3 were used in fights of WWII at any theatre.
              I never heard even about usage of pre-series vehicles of that types.

              No debts there were no IS-3 tanks used agasint Japan in 1945.

              So, further discussion is useless enough, IMHO

              If you like, you can trace production of those tanks in my table
              http://www.rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.c...production.htm

              Have to add those tanks were raw enough and initially had many problems. Maybe that was the reason why they haven't been employed in action.

              Regards
              Alex
              Thanks for the confirmation, Alex.
              "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
              Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

              Comment


              • #8
                Me to, thanks!!

                Would'nt it have been interesting if Japan did face them, what they would be shooting at. Might be the question, and the answer in itself to why they were not! Anyone here of Japan's Tigers? I thought not, although I think there were some kind of plan to ship one over by submarine at some point, but it never happened.

                Cheers, just a thought........

                Comment


                • #9
                  Nippon cats

                  Originally posted by TRDG View Post
                  Would'nt it have been interesting if Japan did face them, what they would be shooting at. Might be the question, and the answer in itself to why they were not! Anyone here of Japan's Tigers? I thought not, although I think there were some kind of plan to ship one over by submarine at some point, but it never happened.

                  Cheers, just a thought........
                  Japan bought a Panther D and a Tiger I but of course had no way of shipping them back to Japan short of cutting them into pieces small enough to fit inside their long range submarines. Both eventually ended their days somewhere in Europe. Buying a few thousand Panzerschreck or Panzerfaust SCATW would have made more sense - less expensive in lives than the two-legged lunge mine equivalent.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Whenever a country makes a new weapon, there is always a rush to test in in combat. In Hans Rudels' book, "Stuka Pilot", he claims to have bombed (Or, at least got a very good look at one, forgot which, without looking it up). Additionaly, a captured Soviet Lt. decribed them in detail to the Germans in Jan/45. How could a front line soldier know this if they weren't there? As an example to show "the rush", Italian researchers recently proved that Israel was using the new powdered tungsten bomb on civilians. This US made product was so new, it had yet to be given an "official" designation. I seriously doubt that when a country makes a new weapon in the middle of a war, they simply stick it in the closet.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      A very

                      interesting contribution, thank you sir!

                      TRDG

                      Tom

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        As far as I've seen in my books they didn't even see combat in the Korean conflict as would have been naturally. The mainstay of the North Korean armour forces was the venerable T-34/85 supported by SU-76 spg's. So I'm of the opinion that it's impossible to prove that the IS-3 and T-44 ever saw combat and I don't belive that they did so either.
                        The safest place in Korea was behind a platoon of Marines. Lord how they could fight! - MGEN Frank Lowe, U.S. Army.
                        ----
                        We got a kinder, gentler, Machine gun hand - N.Y.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by McCoy View Post
                          As far as I've seen in my books they didn't even see combat in the Korean conflict as would have been naturally. The mainstay of the North Korean armour forces was the venerable T-34/85 supported by SU-76 spg's. So I'm of the opinion that it's impossible to prove that the IS-3 and T-44 ever saw combat and I don't belive that they did so either.
                          Can't speak for the T-44 but the IS-3 did see some post-war combat, quite a bit with the Egyptian Army in the 1967 Six-Day War and a very small amount in the 1973 Yom Kippur War.
                          Last edited by panther3485; 27 Oct 07, 20:43.
                          "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                          Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            That may be so but those conflicts were really onesided slaughters. Pz IV's, StuG III's, upgunned T-34's and various Shermans also saw combat in those wars.
                            The safest place in Korea was behind a platoon of Marines. Lord how they could fight! - MGEN Frank Lowe, U.S. Army.
                            ----
                            We got a kinder, gentler, Machine gun hand - N.Y.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by McCoy View Post
                              That may be so but those conflicts were really onesided slaughters. Pz IV's, StuG III's, upgunned T-34's and various Shermans also saw combat in those wars.
                              That's true, but you did say:

                              "So I'm of the opinion that it's impossible to prove that the IS-3 and T-44 ever saw combat and I don't belive that they did so either."

                              ....which I thought was quite a definite statement, when in fact the IS-3 did see some action and it's easily substantiated. Also, apparently, Israeli troops did report considerable difficulty knocking them out (compared to other enemy types) though of course, this did not affect the final outcome and the Egyptians lost 73 out of about 100 IS-3ms in the 1967 war.


                              Best regards,
                              panther3485
                              Last edited by panther3485; 27 Oct 07, 20:42.
                              "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                              Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X