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AOK 6 Kriegstagebuch (20.11.42)

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  • AOK 6 Kriegstagebuch (20.11.42)

    Hi:

    I am reading "Stalingrad" by V. E. Tarrant. On page 107, he quotes the AOK 6 Kriegstagebuch, for 20.11.42. I could not find any references to any portion of the battle in the copy at NARA. Is it possible that the entire Kriegstagebuch was not copied/translated from the original at the NARA. Of course, another possibility is that I missed it.

    Regards,

    John
    Stranger! To Sparta say, her faithful band,
    Here lie in death, remembering her command.

    www.wwii-photos-maps.com

  • #2
    It's possible the AOK 6 war journals were flown out before the end came. It is possible that it was turned later by individuals who held unit documents at the end of the war. Glantz has seen that several times. Did Tarrant in his bibliography/citation for the War Journal note whether it came from NARA, Bundes archives, or British holdings? If Bundes, then they have recovered some documents which are not at NARA. Is Tarrants a British author? If so, he probably accessed a holding in Europe.

    rna
    Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

    Comment


    • #3
      Rick:

      In his bibliography, he states the source is NARA. He is Welsh and currently teaches Pastoral Theology at the University of Wales. He does not read German or Russian, but had other people do his translations.

      It seems that most historians who write about Stalingrad tend to quote each other and provide pretty much the same information as many other authors. They even use many of the same maps and photographs. Tarrant actually quotes from authors who are quoting from translations of the original document.

      I am thinking about heading back to NARA even though the 1,300 mile round trip is not pleasant.

      Regards,

      John
      Stranger! To Sparta say, her faithful band,
      Here lie in death, remembering her command.

      www.wwii-photos-maps.com

      Comment


      • #4
        AOK 6 Kriegstagebuch

        Hi:

        I have found another quote from AOK 6. Kriegstagebuch, dated 17.10.42., in "Stalingrad" by S. J. Lewis. It would appear that the document covers at least part of Stalingrad, and I missed that.

        KTB A.O.K. 6 Ia, 17. Oktober 1942, file 30155/33, reproduced on microcopy T312, roll 1458, frames 961-963.

        Regards,

        John
        Stranger! To Sparta say, her faithful band,
        Here lie in death, remembering her command.

        www.wwii-photos-maps.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by John Calvin View Post
          Hi:

          I have found another quote from AOK 6. Kriegstagebuch, dated 17.10.42., in "Stalingrad" by S. J. Lewis. It would appear that the document covers at least part of Stalingrad, and I missed that.

          KTB A.O.K. 6 Ia, 17. Oktober 1942, file 30155/33, reproduced on microcopy T312, roll 1458, frames 961-963.

          Regards,

          John
          That's a NARA citation that you can work with Lewis's effort.

          I'm not accusing Tarrant of this because I have not studied his work, but it has been known to happen that a writer will use the citation of another author while not reading the primary source material.

          Or, in my case, George Forty lifted text verbatim from my article in Armor magazine on Kravchenko and cited another source.
          Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

          Comment


          • #6
            You can buy the 6th Army War Diary for the Stalingrad period from Leaping Horseman Books.
            http://www.leapinghorseman.com/prodd...banlagen&cat=5
            "If you have too firm a belief in the glories of soldiering, try a war."

            Comment


            • #7
              Kardon:

              I have seen this offering before. The only problem is that it only includes annexes. It would appear that it does not include the Ia reports, which would include daily unit movements.

              I have discussed obtaining daily action reports from units at Stalingrad with Jason Mark, and he has not mentioned this resource. If I am wrong, I will be happy to spend the $120.00 plus shipping.

              On the subject of the AOK 6 Kriegstagebuch, I found the following quote on Military History Online.

              "Airlift operations struggled on until Jan. 24, 1943. Two Ju-52s managed to lumber off the runway at Pitomnik airfield, littering the surrounding countryside with an assortment of desperate men who tried to escape by clinging to the wings of the transport. Along with a handful of wounded and a few key staff officers, the last transport carried the War Diary of the 6th Army, Paulus' Last Will and Testament and a few personal keepsakes for his family..."

              This seems to support the existence of the documents, including information up to January.

              Regards,

              John
              Stranger! To Sparta say, her faithful band,
              Here lie in death, remembering her command.

              www.wwii-photos-maps.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by John Calvin View Post
                Kardon:

                I have seen this offering before. The only problem is that it only includes annexes. It would appear that it does not include the Ia reports, which would include daily unit movements.

                I have discussed obtaining daily action reports from units at Stalingrad with Jason Mark, and he has not mentioned this resource. If I am wrong, I will be happy to spend the $120.00 plus shipping.

                On the subject of the AOK 6 Kriegstagebuch, I found the following quote on Military History Online.

                "Airlift operations struggled on until Jan. 24, 1943. Two Ju-52s managed to lumber off the runway at Pitomnik airfield, littering the surrounding countryside with an assortment of desperate men who tried to escape by clinging to the wings of the transport. Along with a handful of wounded and a few key staff officers, the last transport carried the War Diary of the 6th Army, Paulus' Last Will and Testament and a few personal keepsakes for his family..."

                This seems to support the existence of the documents, including information up to January.

                Regards,

                John
                If I'm not mistaken, in Lost Battles Manstein mentions that the 6th Army war diary was flown out of the pocket with a staff officer.
                "If you have too firm a belief in the glories of soldiering, try a war."

                Comment

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