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Can anybody help in getting German maps???

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  • amvas
    replied
    The situation became more clear from this scheme.




    i) We can see II/4th SS Regt ("Ostmark") in Zubovo (Subowo) area

    ii) To resume it seems the other territory of this nose was occupied by the 74th Schutzen Regt/19th Panzer Division

    iii) Other divisions (52,131,137...) can be seen around Kaluga, but who knows, maybe the 131st I.D. could be found somewhere else.


    Regards
    Alex

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by Barbarossa View Post
    The top map is not in the area of question.
    NO, it's just the area of the question!!!
    Our subject is that nose alnog Ugra river, where you can see the 74th Schutzen Regiment on that map!!!!!

    However, you may have found something with the location of 4th SS Rgt "Der Fuhrer" from the 2nd SS Division, "Das Reich" commandedby Otto Kumm. This entire division however, withdrew to positions west of Gshatsk on 1/16/42 and took part in counter-attacks against Soviets that broke thru the Rzhev area.
    I think this regiment was redeployed in Juchnow area a bit later. Maybe in late January

    Regards
    Alex

    Leave a comment:


  • Barbarossa
    replied
    The top map is not in the area of question. However, you may have found something with the location of 4th SS Rgt "Der Fuhrer" from the 2nd SS Division, "Das Reich" commandedby Otto Kumm. This entire division however, withdrew to positions west of Gshatsk on 1/16/42 and took part in counter-attacks against Soviets that broke thru the Rzhev area.

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by Barbarossa View Post
    Alex, a quick check (1/12/41)on one of my many German sources, no 213th exists in the area, 36th mot. is WAY too far to the north (north of Dmitrov) to be in that area, 19th Pz. is near Naro-Fom; and the rest of the infantry divisions now appear to be under XIII Inf Korps in the Oka Rv. bend. I'll check some other sources.
    Our recent research resulted in getting more detailed information who could be there.
    Now the most possible case is 74th Schutzen Regiment/19th Panzer Division



    Scheme on Jan 18'42

    Another candidate for been opponent of the Soviet troops in this region is the 131st Infantry Division supported with the 4th SS Regiment



    Feb. 1'42

    Thx...
    Alex

    Leave a comment:


  • Barbarossa
    replied
    Originally posted by amvas View Post
    Hi, folks!

    Your assistance is needed very much!!!
    There existed a fortified nose of Germans in Upryamovo-Kudinovo-Zubovo area, which was attacked by the Soviet 217th and 340th Rifle Divisions

    P.S. If my operative scheme is correct there must be troops of the 36th Motorised Division (43rd Inf. corps/4th Army?). But Soviet data can be wrong in this case...
    Among opponents of the 50th Soviet Army there were also: 31,131,137,213,52nd Inf. Divisions and 19th Panzer Division. but I have absolutely no data where they were. I can only guess that 31,52,131,137th I.D. were more east from the target region.
    so, I can guess the most possible variants were the 19th Panzer Division and 36th Motorized Infantry Division
    Alex, a quick check (1/12/41)on one of my many German sources, no 213th exists in the area, 36th mot. is WAY too far to the north (north of Dmitrov) to be in that area, 19th Pz. is near Naro-Fom; and the rest of the infantry divisions now appear to be under XIII Inf Korps in the Oka Rv. bend. I'll check some other sources.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kardon
    replied
    Originally posted by John Calvin View Post
    Alex:

    I have attached some maps I got from NARA. Are these an example of the kind of maps you are looking?

    Regards,

    John
    Do you use the copier there (15 cents a page) or use a digital camera to photograph the screen. I've always used the copier, but it gets pricey when you're copying something like an entire war diary!

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by John Calvin View Post
    Alex:

    I have attached some maps I got from NARA. Are these an example of the kind of maps you are looking?

    Regards,

    John
    Hi, John

    Those maps shows positions of entire divisions, but not exactly where smaller units were disposed... I need maps, where bunkers, trenchers, MG nests, minefields are marked... That's my main goal...

    thx
    Alex

    Leave a comment:


  • John Calvin
    replied
    Maps

    Alex:

    I have attached some maps I got from NARA. Are these an example of the kind of maps you are looking?

    Regards,

    John
    Last edited by John Calvin; 06 Aug 08, 07:29.

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by Trigger Happy View Post
    I don't want to sound too pessimistic for you, but the most detail you will find in divisional records in NARA is most probably 100,000 except in some rare cases and exceptional events where you'll find 50,000 maps. But they usually will all be marked with situation markers.
    In any case ANY map would be useful, even 100,000!


    I actually have a bit of a 100,000 map, but of the area northwest of Iukhnov (the bend of the river Ugra), so sorry, can't help.


    The only thing that might look more promising is that the area around Moscow (or Leningrad) is better covered than the rest of the country (ie Rostov, Stalingrad, Kharkov, etc.)
    I hope so...
    thx

    Regards
    Alex

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    If to follow recon report of the Army Group "Center" on Jan. 25 Upryamovo area was defended by the 131st Inf. Division.
    I also was told there was a zone of the 43rd Inf. Corps/4th Army (operative group of the 19th Pz. D., 31, 131 , 137 Inf. Div.)

    Regards
    Alex

    Leave a comment:


  • Trigger Happy
    replied
    I don't want to sound too pessimistic for you, but the most detail you will find in divisional records in NARA is most probably 100,000 except in some rare cases and exceptional events where you'll find 50,000 maps. But they usually will all be marked with situation markers.

    I actually have a bit of a 100,000 map, but of the area northwest of Iukhnov (the bend of the river Ugra), so sorry, can't help.

    The only thing that might look more promising is that the area around Moscow (or Leningrad) is better covered than the rest of the country (ie Rostov, Stalingrad, Kharkov, etc.)

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Roughly the operation can be seen as follows:


    Shot at 2007-08-07

    zubovo is at the top of German nose...

    Regards
    Alex

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by Half Pint View Post
    I was afraid of that! I have no known sources. Perhaps ask the German Embassy in Moscow. They might be able to at least give you a lead. You can check at the Axis History Forum or Fieldgrau Forums they might be of more help.

    Sorry I couldn't help you.

    HP
    Embassy can do nothing...
    Only researchers in NARA, or Bundesarhcive can do anything...

    Yes, I have in mind Axishistory, or Feldgrau, but first of all I'm trying to find out any possibilities on my own forum

    thx
    Alex

    Leave a comment:


  • Half Pint John
    replied
    Originally posted by amvas View Post
    No, no, I need historical maps, with marked positions of German troops.

    thx
    Alex
    I was afraid of that! I have no known sources. Perhaps ask the German Embassy in Moscow. They might be able to at least give you a lead. You can check at the Axis History Forum or Fieldgrau Forums they might be of more help.

    Sorry I couldn't help you.

    HP

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by Half Pint View Post
    http://www.google.com/search?q=1:25,...&start=10&sa=N

    This is a general link for maps. Do you need present day maps or historical maps? Russian made maps have usuall y been superior to most of the western maps. Have you checked Amazon? Here we can usually order 1/25000
    1/50000 from the book stores.

    HP
    No, no, I need historical maps, with marked positions of German troops.

    thx
    Alex

    Leave a comment:

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