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  • Guards Rifle Division TO&E

    Hello guys, got a question about TO&E of Guards rifle divisons...

    I have found TO&E of normal infantry divisions, but how much did a Guards Rifle division differ?

    I know a GRD got betther cash, betther equiptment and more personel but what about vehicles (armorued)? especially regarding Recon...

    a Infantry divisions recon Company used trucks to move around on, and then dismounting before doing their jobb. but what about Guards rifle divisions recon company? did they use BA-64. M3 scout car and so on or they had to use trucks as well?

    Hope someone can answer this one for me

    Cheers Thomas
    http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...ussianppsh.jpg
    www.reenactor.se

  • #2
    Originally posted by ThomasM View Post
    Hello guys, got a question about TO&E of Guards rifle divisons...

    I have found TO&E of normal infantry divisions, but how much did a Guards Rifle division differ?
    In general staffs of both types of divisions were similar.

    I know a GRD got betther cash, betther equiptment and more personel but what about vehicles (armorued)? especially regarding Recon...
    It was very individual. Of course they got better equipment and were reinforced more quickly than other divisions. but I'm not ready to say they usually had more manpower than ordinary divisions. Everything depended on the situation.
    About recon I can say again it was very individual feature...

    a Infantry divisions recon Company used trucks to move around on, and then dismounting before doing their jobb. but what about Guards rifle divisions recon company? did they use BA-64. M3 scout car and so on or they had to use trucks as well?
    They used what they were supplied with. I think they were among the first to get lend-lease vehicles (powerful trucks and carriers)


    Regards
    Alex
    If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

    Comment


    • #3
      thx Alex, but it would be really good if it could be determined somewhere. Our discussion in the unit goes around asumptions and logics, and many say "could be so" and im not prepared on agreeing with that.

      situation is that some guys in the unit want to build a BA-64 replica and use it in our reenactment, despite that we are the recon platoon in 188:e regiment, so the guys mean we can build a BA-64 and then reform to 194th Regocnize company instead, but an normal infantry division only had trucks in their recce coy anyway, so I need to find out if they had or hadnt anything else then trucks.

      Any info appreciated
      http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...ussianppsh.jpg
      www.reenactor.se

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      • #4
        here you go

        http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/vy75/toe.htm

        As you can see, even guards rifle divisions didn't have ba-64 in 1942/43.

        Maybe you should try here:

        http://www.redarmyonline.org/STAVKA.html
        Last edited by owen36; 25 Jul 07, 12:27.
        Dearest of all my Friends(Vlad in max payne 2)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by owen36 View Post
          http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/vy75/toe.htm

          As you can see, even guards rifle divisions didn't have ba-64 in 1942/43.

          thank you very much! thats good info you found there!

          This gonna be useful

          Cheers Thomas
          http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...ussianppsh.jpg
          www.reenactor.se

          Comment


          • #6
            Maybe you should try here too:

            http://www.redarmyonline.org/STAVKA.html

            I would give you a link to the red army studies site, but it seem to have gone. Pity


            You can also try these guys.
            You can ask the russians side for more info. There is sure someone to help you further:
            http://www.cmmc2.org/
            Dearest of all my Friends(Vlad in max payne 2)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by owen36 View Post
              Maybe you should try here too:

              http://www.redarmyonline.org/STAVKA.html

              I would give you a link to the red army studies site, but it seem to have gone. Pity


              You can also try these guys.
              You can ask the russians side for more info. There is sure someone to help you further:
              http://www.cmmc2.org/
              I wouldn't recommend much to use western sites for getting this sort of info.
              ..
              Even Alan's excellent
              http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/vy75/toe.htm
              can contain mistakes...
              I have some strength tables on my site. They are copies of original archival ones.
              See sample
              http://www.rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.c...h_Dec19_44.htm

              http://www.rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.c...trength_45.htm

              http://www.rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.c...h_Dec20_44.htm

              You can see some strengths ofdifferent rifle units...

              Regards
              Alex
              If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes but Alex the info you give there isnt enough to sort out my question really, its to large unit info there, Alans site gives alitle more detail info, ewen do I am suprised to find that the recon platoon of regiment should consisft of 5 squads while recon platoon or recon company consist 3 squads per platoon.
                http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...ussianppsh.jpg
                www.reenactor.se

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ThomasM View Post
                  Yes but Alex the info you give there isnt enough to sort out my question really, its to large unit info there, Alans site gives alitle more detail info, ewen do I am suprised to find that the recon platoon of regiment should consisft of 5 squads while recon platoon or recon company consist 3 squads per platoon.
                  The problem I have no exact TO&E for units down to platoons...
                  If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by amvas View Post
                    The problem I have no exact TO&E for units down to platoons...
                    and thats makes 2 of us
                    http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...ussianppsh.jpg
                    www.reenactor.se

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ThomasM View Post
                      and thats makes 2 of us
                      Nobody can cover all the subjects... WWII is too giant field for research...
                      If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Agreed, but then again, thats a good reason to research

                        maybe in 200years we will have ewerything researched, pitty we are dead by then
                        http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...ussianppsh.jpg
                        www.reenactor.se

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ThomasM View Post
                          Agreed, but then again, thats a good reason to research

                          maybe in 200years we will have ewerything researched, pitty we are dead by then
                          $$$ can compress that 200 years to 20 days in necessity...
                          If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by amvas View Post
                            $$$ can compress that 200 years to 20 days in necessity...
                            How much will 250 ruble do? Oh wait! Rubles from 1892 maybe don´t work anymore?
                            Last edited by Erkki; 26 Jul 07, 14:03.
                            “For there is nothing more serious than a lunatic when he comes to the central point of his lunacy.”

                            Max Sterner

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Erkki View Post
                              How much will 250 ruble do? Oh wait! Rubles from 1892 maybe don´t work anymore?
                              not much unfortunly, unless you sell the money for money and get more rubels for them

                              I once did a calculation on how much it would cost to dig up the info for 63rd Guards rifle division (136th rifle division) in GPW from the wars begining to the war ended and my calculations ended up in 275 000SEK...
                              Ive put in 16800sek so far so there is a long way to go

                              /Thomas
                              http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...ussianppsh.jpg
                              www.reenactor.se

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