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  • Originally posted by Egorka View Post
    What do you want to say? That Poland never wanted a piece of Ukrain?
    Wll, I never told, that Polish ocupation were justified more than russian. I just say, both of them were ocupations. Polish before Commonwealth partition, and Russian-Soviet after. OCUPATION - no union (especialy in Soviet standards) as You want to prove.
    - Your Highness, the enemy is so numerous... they outnumber your army.
    - My friend, first I beat 'em then I'll count 'em
    (Polish King Jan III Sobieski during his campaigns)

    Historia Wojskowa Portal Historyczno-Wojskowy phw.org.pl

    Comment


    • Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
      Wll, I never told, that Polish ocupation were justified more than russian. I just say, both of them were ocupations. Polish before Commonwealth partition, and Russian-Soviet after. OCUPATION - no union (especialy in Soviet standards) as You want to prove.
      I am sorry, Barbarossa, I wonder what exactly do you think I want to prove?

      peace and love
      Igor
      Kind regards
      Igor

      * My grandfathers WW2 memoirs - Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, 1944-1945.
      * On the question of "2 mil. rapes" by RKKA
      * Verdicts of RKKA Military Tribunals for crimes against civilians in 1945

      Comment


      • Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
        Not realy a good time, rather I'm sad, when I hear something like this -
        What exactly did you find funny about me saying that RKKA in 1941 planned defensive war on the territory of the enemy?
        You seems to be reliable person, but such .. . changes my oppinion.
        Hi Barbarossa,

        I am still confused. So I repeat my question: What exactly do you have against this statement of mine? Do you think I lied? Do you think I made it up? What is it?

        I am hopping for a normal answer with fewer smilies this time. Thank you in advance!


        I know quite well Polish war and patriotic songs, but this You cite, I never heard. Any sources? But It seems to be next provocation like "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion".
        I am trying to get the song's text in Polish.

        But lets assume for just one second that it is a real song. How would you caracterise it?


        Regards
        Igor
        Kind regards
        Igor

        * My grandfathers WW2 memoirs - Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, 1944-1945.
        * On the question of "2 mil. rapes" by RKKA
        * Verdicts of RKKA Military Tribunals for crimes against civilians in 1945

        Comment


        • RKKA in 1941 planned defensive war on the territory of the enemy?
          Originally posted by Egorka View Post
          Hi Barbarossa,

          I am still confused. So I repeat my question: What exactly do you have against this statement of mine? Do you think I lied? Do you think I made it up? What is it?
          Igor, just think.
          If You want to protect Your house, You let in dogs to neighbour's garden?
          - Your Highness, the enemy is so numerous... they outnumber your army.
          - My friend, first I beat 'em then I'll count 'em
          (Polish King Jan III Sobieski during his campaigns)

          Historia Wojskowa Portal Historyczno-Wojskowy phw.org.pl

          Comment


          • Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
            Igor, just think.
            If You want to protect Your house, You let in dogs to neighbour's garden?
            Barbarossa,

            So you accept that such military doctrine existed in the 1930s, but you condemn it as being immoral?
            Have I understood you correctly? Is this the message you are trying to convey?

            And I promiss you to do my best to think as much it can be done given my abilities.

            I know quite well Polish war and patriotic songs, but this You cite, I never heard. Any sources? But It seems to be next provocation like "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion".
            The quote on the song, to my knowledge, appears in the book "Battles Lost and Won: Great Campaigns of World War 2" by Hanson Weightman Baldwin, 2000. (first edition in 1967).

            Mr. Hanson Baldwin was the New York Times special military reporter. Being sent to Europe he wrote a great deal of articles about Poland in the 1930s. I actually have access to the NYT online article archive and have seen some interesting things Mr.Baldwin wrote about Poland. The Washington Post in 1991: "Mr. Baldwin joined the Times in 1928. During the next 40 years, he earned a reputation as one of the nation's most respected military commentators."

            I will try to find the book and take a look. You can try the same in the mean while.
            So together we can maybe see if this is one of the Scion Elder's scroll or not.
            But before you check it out: Whould such a song surprise you? Do you think existense of such a song proves anything?

            Regards
            Igor
            Last edited by Egorka; 24 Jul 07, 17:16.
            Kind regards
            Igor

            * My grandfathers WW2 memoirs - Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, 1944-1945.
            * On the question of "2 mil. rapes" by RKKA
            * Verdicts of RKKA Military Tribunals for crimes against civilians in 1945

            Comment


            • Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
              I know quite well Polish war and patriotic songs, but this You cite, I never heard. Any sources? But It seems to be next provocation like "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion".
              Hello Barbarossa!

              I got the book "Battles Lost and Won" by Hanson Baldwin, 1966.
              On page 16 it sais:
              The Poles, like the French, had an unwarranted faith in fortifications and in the defensive - a heritage of the trench stalemate of World War I. They were proud and overconfident, living in the past. Many Polish soldiers, infected with the martial spirit of their people and their traditional hatred for the Germans, spoke and dreamed of "the march to Berlin." One of their songs portrayed their hopes:
              ...dressed in steel and mail
              Under the leadership of Rydz-Smigly
              We shall march to the Rhine...(44)
              The refference #44 refferes to "Der Feldzug in Polen, 1939," Die Gebigstruppe, Munich, October, 1964.

              I do not know what it is? Is it a military history magazin?

              So as you see, even if it is a myth, it is not of a Russian origin.
              Kind regards
              Igor

              * My grandfathers WW2 memoirs - Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, 1944-1945.
              * On the question of "2 mil. rapes" by RKKA
              * Verdicts of RKKA Military Tribunals for crimes against civilians in 1945

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Egorka View Post
                What does this have to do with the alleged Russian territorial claims on Estonia?
                The claims that Estonia is still subordinated to Kreml and former KGB agent Putin.At the Russian way of peace Estonia is still a part of Great Russia ,but not an independent country.
                Guerrero contra marxismo

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Kunikov View Post
                  Paul Carell isn't a credible source. All of your questions can easily be answered, but as I have already said, you won't be satisfied with my answers. Only when you realize that you have no evidence will you be satisfied, not with me providing evidence and sources for you.
                  So who is the credible source ? Kremlin historicians who were licking Brezniew a#$ for decades and nowadays are doing the same for KGB agent Putin ?
                  Guerrero contra marxismo

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bartek View Post
                    So who is the credible source ? Kremlin historicians who were licking Brezniew a#$ for decades and nowadays are doing the same for KGB agent Putin ?
                    First off, Carell worked for the Nazi propaganda department, secondly, you'll have to prove your accusations. Yet once again, thank you for proving that you know little and want to know even less if it doesn't fit in with the 'facts' that you believe in.
                    "This isn't Paris, you will not get through here with a Marching Parade!" Defenders of Stalingrad
                    "Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out... and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel.... And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man" - with his mouth". Mark Twain
                    "It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets. Voltaire

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bartek View Post
                      So who is the credible source ? Kremlin historicians who were licking Brezniew a#$ for decades and nowadays are doing the same for KGB agent Putin ?
                      credible sources are those, who are based on real archival documents, preferrably of both sides.

                      I don't know a single so called "Kremlin historian" Maybe you are acquired who are they??? I'd like to meet him and have a talk...

                      As for Brezhnev times, yes there were many flood there. But one can read even those sources and I'm not ready to say they are all unreliable and all info from them can be treated as lie.

                      I hope we are not going to start dispute who Mr. Putin are? Don't we?
                      Maybe for me to be FSB agent means the most degree of reliability, while majority of our "democrates" who were in power in 1990s were agents of CIA, eh?
                      In this case I prefer FSB, ....
                      If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Kunikov View Post
                        First off, Carell worked for the Nazi propaganda department, secondly, you'll have to prove your accusations. Yet once again, thank you for proving that you know little and want to know even less if it doesn't fit in with the 'facts' that you believe in.
                        It's very bad for You that I'm enough old to remember the commnuism.And I know very well the bolshevik's way of treatment against people who are writting or talking uncomfortable things.
                        1.If that person is in range of CzeKa/NKWD/KGB/FSB he will be killed (as Politowska or Litwinienko ),imprisoned ( as Chodorkowski ) or send to psychiatric hospital ( as Solzenicyn).
                        2.If that person is out of communist's range he will be called as uncredible source ( as Suvorow) or mythomaniac ( as Polish historicians who are writting about Katyn or/and Kolyma ).

                        BTW at middle of XVII century Moscowian diplomat demand the death penalty for puvblisher from Gdansk ,because of the book about Polish-Moscwian war at XVI century.Maybe I'm wrong but nothing was changed at the East from Poland.
                        Guerrero contra marxismo

                        Comment


                        • Bartek, you again supply us with unproved statements!
                          As they are too provocative I need to ask you to be
                          i) inside the topic
                          ii) Supply your claims with clear evidences, but not with loud declarations only.

                          I'll give you idea what I mean and will close this thread.
                          In the case if you continue such your actions I need to apply more strict measures

                          Originally posted by Bartek View Post
                          It's very bad for You that I'm enough old to remember the commnuism.And I know very well the bolshevik's way of treatment against people who are writting or talking uncomfortable things.
                          1.If that person is in range of CzeKa/NKWD/KGB/FSB he will be killed (as Politowska or Litwinienko ),
                          Still no evidences from your side who had killed those people.
                          for me it's more than evident that it's Berezovskiy to be interested in Litvinenko's death and still nobody could provide any proofs of interests of Russian Intelligence in his death.
                          As there are no data about Politkovskaya, I can't also see evidences for any interest of Intelligence in her death. There were many other figures, who could be interested in it.
                          It's very strange from your side to choose only one version and insist on it using only declarations and nothing more...

                          imprisoned ( as Chodorkowski ) or send to psychiatric hospital ( as Solzenicyn).
                          All eggs in one basket...
                          Chodorkovskiy was imprisoned for economical crimes, but not for political. Hoever almost all our oligarchs can be imprisoned for the same deals,
                          Chodorkovsky simply was among the most active in politics trying to make politics himself...

                          2.If that person is out of communist's range he will be called as uncredible source ( as Suvorow) or mythomaniac ( as Polish historicians who are writting about Katyn or/and Kolyma ).

                          BTW at middle of XVII century Moscowian diplomat demand the death penalty for puvblisher from Gdansk ,because of the book about Polish-Moscwian war at XVI century.Maybe I'm wrong but nothing was changed at the East from Poland.
                          Seems you still unaware that there are no Soviet regime here...
                          You can sleep safely, no communists around me here

                          Hope we are not going to drop down to the XVI century.....

                          The thread is closed...
                          If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                          Comment

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