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  • Originally posted by stalin View Post
    volkogonov is right.
    trotsky was a terrorist - first of all, and - not a soldier.
    he knew nothing about warfare.
    he only knew how to make people sacrifice themselves for an idea.
    but, hey - that's what is needed in the civil war!
    whereas the white army was commanded by professional generals, colonels and officers - the red army was commanded mostly by ideologists/ex-terrorists/bolsheviks, and red army won!
    It is not such an easy thing as it looks like,that from one side terrorists and gangsters from the second side generals and gangsters won.
    1.Communists kept the central position the country,so for them it was the battle from central position.They had railways and they were able to move very fast units from East to the West,from the North to the South.
    For white generals it was impossible to move in 2-3 weeks division from Crimea to Wladiwostok,for bolsheviks it was possible.
    2.Red Army had ONE staff ,which was able to coordinate moves and campaigns at all fronts.
    White generals had no communication between them,at 1917 it was impossible to had good radio or personal communication between Crimea and Wladiwostok,to many countries,seas ,oceans.
    3.For the first year bolshevik's government was protected not by Red Army ,but by "internacionalist' troops " .They were German and Austrian POW liberated from stalags by Lenin.Kaiser ordered them to form army and help bolsheviks.Till the November 1918 white genrals were fighting against German and Austrian formations ,but not against bolsheviks.
    4.To win the civil war white generals ought to be not only a good commanders ,but also a good politicians.
    For example at 1920 Pilsudski and Petlura asked Denikin for operation against bolsheviks,
    Polish condition was :
    Poland is free country with Vilnus,Minsk and Lwow;
    Ukrainians conditions was :
    Ukraina is free country federated with Poland ,with Kijew and Charkow.
    Denikin answered that Saint Russia is one and there was no possibilities to divide Holy Mother Russia Grounds between Poland,Ukraina and new post-war Russia.
    And Denikin lost his war.
    5.There were a lot of rebelions against bolsheviks (Tambow,Don Cossacks,mariners of Baltic Fleet etc ),but without any kind of communication the rebels started in different time and were separated one from the others.It was a great opportunity for bolsheviks ,they could destroy rebels one after one,but never all at the same time.
    Guerrero contra marxismo

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Egorka View Post
      About the same as you wrote. Except that Trotsky, as I know, was seriously for the world revolution, wheras Stalin was in fact more moderate.

      I think Trotsky and Lenin would most likely to be worse than Stalin.

      We got easily away, guys!
      I think that's why Stalin won the battle against Trotsky.Every one knew that Stalin was cruel and merciless ,but he wasn't a sadistic murder like Lenin ,Trotsky,Dybienko,Jakir,Kotowskij and many others.
      Guerrero contra marxismo

      Comment


      • Originally posted by stalin View Post
        so, fooking, what - now?
        The distance of civilisation ,the rights and the laws which people were fighting for and defending for thousands of years.
        From all human rights communists left one : to cross the street on the red light.
        Last edited by Bartek; 23 May 07, 09:19.
        Guerrero contra marxismo

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sheik Yerbouti View Post
          ... you are saying that people are scoundrels by nature, and it is wrong to change it?
          it is right - to change human's nature, in a first place!!
          read my post thoroughly:
          http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...&postcount=190

          Comment


          • Regarding Trotsky, I've read that he had already abandoned the idea of world revolution (continuous revolution), when Stalin started to use it as a weapon against him in 1924. Both had accepted the fact that revolution won't spread anywhere soon, but Stalin made a "mosaic" out of Lenin's writings, which were supposed to prove that Trotsky was somehow wrong. Lenin himself wouldn't had recognized his ideas from the "mosaic", but it didn't stop Stalin of course.
            “To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed…” -1984 about the Big Lie

            Comment


            • Originally posted by amvas View Post
              Btw, German documents are in very good state. They tried to fix everyhitng even murder.

              Also NKVD archives are also very exact and you have no any alternative for using of them like you this, or not. Another thing they are not opened all. but this is resolvable with time...
              Otehrwise you can use only loud voice which can't be accepted by serious researchers as real argument
              Originally posted by amvas View Post
              Your version of history is incorrect because you paid no attention to prove it making loud, but empty statements to be your main weapon.
              You are free to prove it in proper thread, but you even didn't make an attempt preferrfin to offtop here...
              Well,... so let's continue this offtop here.
              Could You translate this document, for our nonrusianspeaking friends?





              ... and look at this huge signature at the first page, lookin' familiar, isn't it?

              Yes, yes, it's Soso himself and Woroshylow, Molotov, Mikojan.
              - Your Highness, the enemy is so numerous... they outnumber your army.
              - My friend, first I beat 'em then I'll count 'em
              (Polish King Jan III Sobieski during his campaigns)

              Historia Wojskowa Portal Historyczno-Wojskowy phw.org.pl

              Comment


              • in chase of the social progress you completely bypassed the issues of spiritual development.
                the ''west'' nowadays is biased towards all things material to such an extent - that it becomes clear:
                the ''west'' lost its sublime idea which it once owned and professed, but now - has got no more.
                But is communism not all about materialism at its core? Or more specifically, economics?

                you guys were so afraid of collectivism that you fell into individualism.
                which is mistake, because - first of all, you had to make the human being stop be a scoundrel,
                and only then entitle him/her to delights like ''freedom'', ''human rights'' etc.
                I think you mean special interests, where some people demand what is not owed to them at the expense of everyone else. The problem is that all of our old community that once was is mocked all of the time. Look at how our own textbooks mock our history. You are lucky that you aren't taught to hate yourselves as we are. There's nothing wrong with honest self criticism, but how can you expect us to have any idea of a country when we are told it is racist (or whatever) to be patriotic?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Swampwolf View Post
                  But is communism not all about materialism at its core? Or more specifically, economics?
                  yes, it is.
                  and in that sense, communism is none the better than capitalism.
                  in order to find the consent within a state we, first off, must get rid of all these ''-isms''.


                  Originally posted by Swampwolf View Post
                  ... The problem is that all of our old community that once was is mocked all of the time. Look at how our own textbooks mock our history. You are lucky that you aren't taught to hate yourselves as we are. There's nothing wrong with honest self criticism, but how can you expect us to have any idea of a country when we are told it is racist (or whatever) to be patriotic?
                  from 1991 till 2001 it was the same way, over here.
                  all of our historical achievements were denigrated.
                  and the schools were the place where denigration of own history reached its most.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by stalin View Post
                    yes, it is.
                    and in that sense, communism is none the better than capitalism.
                    " (...) Communism is none better (...) " there is nothing all over the world worse than communism.
                    My grandfather was a criminal for communists,because for whole Russian occupation from 1945 till 1989 he was keeping pigs .
                    For that reason my mother hadn't spend a half of her live in standing and waiting for hours and hours at shop to buy a bone with guts called by communists "the pork ",but we had got a real meat for dinner.
                    Communist's law allowed farmers to keep pigs,but they were also ordered to send them to the state butchery and they received for their pigs some printed papers called " money " ,but totally useless out of the Polish Peoples Republic and some talons for "meat" ( bones and guts ) .
                    To kill your own pig by yourself was illegal.
                    Farmer could be imprisoned for 2 years !!! for "illegal butchering ".
                    Guerrero contra marxismo

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bartek View Post
                      " (...) Communism is none better (...) " there is nothing all over the world worse than communism.
                      My grandfather was a criminal for communists,because for whole Russian occupation from 1945 till 1989 he was keeping pigs .
                      For that reason my mother hadn't spend a half of her live in standing and waiting for hours and hours at shop to buy a bone with guts called by communists "the pork ",but we had got a real meat for dinner.
                      Communist's law allowed farmers to keep pigs,but they were also ordered to send them to the state butchery and they received for their pigs some printed papers called " money " ,but totally useless out of the Polish Peoples Republic and some talons for "meat" ( bones and guts ) .
                      To kill your own pig by yourself was illegal.
                      Farmer could be imprisoned for 2 years !!! for "illegal butchering ".
                      Yes, and this piggy business was imposed on your by "Russian occupation", right? Those Russian occupants were horible!
                      Kind regards
                      Igor

                      * My grandfathers WW2 memoirs - Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, 1944-1945.
                      * On the question of "2 mil. rapes" by RKKA
                      * Verdicts of RKKA Military Tribunals for crimes against civilians in 1945

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Egorka View Post
                        Yes, and this piggy business was imposed on your by "Russian occupation", right? Those Russian occupants were horible!
                        Yes,Russians brought communism to Poland and protect it very carefuly,always ready to defend socialism like at Hungary 1956,or Czechoslovakia at 1968.
                        Propably they were ready to defend socialism at Poland at 1981,but Jaruzelski made it instead of them.
                        You don't believe that Russians were occupants ? So why Russians Northern Army Group at Legnica had more soldiers,tanks,planes that whole Polish Army.
                        Next problem :
                        Polish Army was independent force only on paper,because really all Polish divisions were to be joined to Soviet Corps and Armies in the case of war.
                        Guerrero contra marxismo

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bartek View Post
                          Yes,Russians brought communism to Poland and protect it very carefuly,always ready to defend socialism like at Hungary 1956,or Czechoslovakia at 1968.
                          Propably they were ready to defend socialism at Poland at 1981,but Jaruzelski made it instead of them.
                          You don't believe that Russians were occupants ? So why Russians Northern Army Group at Legnica had more soldiers,tanks,planes that whole Polish Army.
                          Next problem :
                          Polish Army was independent force only on paper,because really all Polish divisions were to be joined to Soviet Corps and Armies in the case of war.
                          Jagshemash Bartek! Take it easy, my friend.
                          Lets get back to our lovely piggies for a second.

                          Did your grand dad had chickens and gooses? Could he slaughter them himself and keep the meat and eggs?

                          Regards
                          Igor
                          Kind regards
                          Igor

                          * My grandfathers WW2 memoirs - Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, 1944-1945.
                          * On the question of "2 mil. rapes" by RKKA
                          * Verdicts of RKKA Military Tribunals for crimes against civilians in 1945

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Bartek View Post
                            ... To kill your own pig by yourself was illegal. Farmer could be imprisoned for 2 years !!! for "illegal butchering ".
                            stop making up fairy stories, please.
                            nothing like what you claim took place in russia, for instance,
                            so - that means: elsewhere within ''warsaw pact'' states - it didn't happen either.

                            Comment


                            • So is almost in Sweden right now. We can not kill a pig like we want because we have to have a veterinary surgeon to kill the pig so that we can slaughter it.
                              But then we are not allowed to sell the meat.
                              We can sell It alive to a slaughter house but the price is quite bad.
                              It is the same thing with horses and rain deers.

                              We will not be put into jail( I think) but we will have to pay fine.

                              And you know who is responsible for it? Not the Warsaw pact but the Eu!
                              “For there is nothing more serious than a lunatic when he comes to the central point of his lunacy.”

                              Max Sterner

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by stalin View Post
                                stop making up fairy stories, please.
                                nothing like what you claim took place in russia, for instance,
                                so - that means: elsewhere within ''warsaw pact'' states - it didn't happen either.
                                I am not sure that "it didn't happen". I think it could be the way Bartek says. The notion of "illegal butchering" also exists in Denmark, for example. A farmer could not just slain a pig. Up to few years ago, it could only be done by either invited specially educated butcher or at one of official slaughter houses. But then they changed the law so that now it not allowed to do at the farm at all - all the pigs got to go to the slaughter house.

                                But they get the meat back instead of money, if that is what bothers you, Bartek.

                                So, Bartek, how about the chikens and gooses? Could your family keep their meat after slaughter?
                                Kind regards
                                Igor

                                * My grandfathers WW2 memoirs - Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, 1944-1945.
                                * On the question of "2 mil. rapes" by RKKA
                                * Verdicts of RKKA Military Tribunals for crimes against civilians in 1945

                                Comment

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