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  • Originally posted by stalin View Post
    Okay. then - some examples of your superiority, maybe?
    Simply because- by and large- we're free. In thought and action. There are no shackles on my thought processes, but I do believe there are (historical) ones on yours.
    Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
    (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by stalin View Post
      Verdun is compared to Stalingrad!
      Yes. Depending on how you view it. Almost 70% of all French servicemen got rotated through that slaughterhouse. What would have been the %s for the Soviets in Stalingrad? A fraction of that number. Worse, STAVKA didn't care.
      Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
      (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sheik Yerbouti View Post
        I wouldn't bring old views and myths of Soviet military competence into this discussion. Yes, there were blunders, but there were also extraordinary achievements. Btw, Mannerheim was a commander-in-chief during WWII, and had his role in decision making, but you cannot compare him to generals, like Manstein or Vassilievsky, who conducted large scale operations in the field.
        No disrespect at all to Mannerheim. IMO he saved Finland. Apologies if any offense.

        But can we discuss individual extraordinary Soviet achievements against the Axis, winning the war aside, in another thread? Aside from Manchuria 1945 where the Soviets had really finally learned all possible lessons well (logistics, tactics, strategy)?

        The US had their problems too with the Japanese, and after Iwo Jima and Okinawa they'd found the tactics to succeed (the logistics and strategy they had already very early on- it's just that the Pacific- like the USSR- is a big place).
        Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
        (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

        Comment


        • Originally posted by General Staff View Post
          No disrespect at all to Mannerheim. IMO he saved Finland. Apologies if any offense.
          No need to apologize, since I meant operative skills of a field commander. Mannerheim made some good strategic decisions, but he didn't have to show his operative skills in the field. His role was a bit like Eisenhower's on the Western Front (just occurred to me that both were Presidents after the war).
          “To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed…” -1984 about the Big Lie

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sheik Yerbouti View Post
            No need to apologize...
            Any Finn can always ask me to apologize. And I will always grant that request. Perhaps on conditions of course- to be discussed.
            Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
            (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

            Comment


            • all what you get from freedom is a ''comfortable life-style''.

              have you, ''westerners'' - during all this economic growth, grown up spiritually?
              no - you haven't.
              moreover, in spiritual sense - you have slowly started to degenerate.
              The degeneracy isn't so simple. If you want my opinion, it is that the nation itself has been undermined by people who want too much. If there are too extremes between loyalty to self and loyalty to the state, I pick the state, but it must be done correctly: by constitutional law and protections of private property and the nation itself. Don't forget that the American revolution was a reaction to arbitrary power by a landed class. At stake was their already functioning self-rule and their homes. The result of that war didn't bring chaos but an even more clearly defined law, which is the Constitution. In winning they gained freedom and a state. So either freedom or duty is perverse by itself, but they are great when understood together.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Bartek View Post
                The democracy is something like that :
                At 1650 AD at Warsaw Russian diplomat Jurij Gawriłowicz Puszkin demanded the death penalty for books publisher from Gdansk because of ONE BOOK.
                The book was about Polish King and The Grand Duke of Lithuania Wladyslaw IV,for Puszkin the deadly offence was some facts from that book ,just like the lack of words :"tsar and great kniaz " ,or "hospodar the great " at the fragments about tsar.
                Puszkin told that the publisher should be headed off immediately and the book should be burned,Poland should also payed 500 000 zloty's contribution ,and beg the great tsar to forgive.
                The answer of King's Council was :"The King and we the Lords of King's Council do not ordered to write the books and do not forbid to write;when publisher printed something good and justice then we commend him,when the stupid men write something stupid ,untrue or wrong then we The Lords of King Council laugh of it.(...) .At our land ( at Poland and Lithuania ) the publishing of books is free ,just of the law,just of the customs of nations."

                2007 - 1650 = 357 and this is the difference between You and me ,more than 357 years
                .
                - Your Highness, the enemy is so numerous... they outnumber your army.
                - My friend, first I beat 'em then I'll count 'em
                (Polish King Jan III Sobieski during his campaigns)

                Historia Wojskowa Portal Historyczno-Wojskowy phw.org.pl

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                • Originally posted by General Staff View Post
                  ... we're free. In thought and action. There are no shackles on my thought processes...
                  that's not enough to be entitled to superiority.
                  the ''thought process'' is allowed only a spiritually grown up individuals.
                  so, let us keep those ''shackles'' on.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by General Staff View Post
                    ... What would have been the %s for the Soviets in Stalingrad?...Worse, STAVKA didn't care.
                    casualties: red army vs. wehrmacht in stalingrad battle - 56/44 %.
                    see, stavka did care.

                    Last edited by stalin; 22 May 07, 22:10.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Swampwolf View Post
                      ... the nation itself has been undermined by people who want too much...
                      ... either freedom or duty is perverse by itself, but they are great when understood together.
                      still,
                      you guys don't get my point.

                      what i meant was that you, ''westerners'', always seem to try to ''improve'' what cannot be improved.
                      i.e., you are trying to ''improve'' the life itself.
                      which is, to say franlkly - very naive.

                      in chase of the social progress you completely bypassed the issues of spiritual development.
                      the ''west'' nowadays is biased towards all things material to such an extent - that it becomes clear:
                      the ''west'' lost its sublime idea which it once owned and professed, but now - has got no more.

                      you guys were so afraid of collectivism that you fell into individualism.
                      which is mistake, because - first of all, you had to make the human being stop be a scoundrel,
                      and only then entitle him/her to delights like ''freedom'', ''human rights'' etc.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by stalin View Post
                        still,
                        you guys were so afraid of collectivism that you fell into individualism.
                        which is mistake, because - first of all, you had to make the human being stop be a scoundrel,
                        and only then entitle him/her to delights like ''freedom'', ''human rights'' etc.
                        Are you saying that there are too many scoundrels in Russia to make democracy work?
                        “To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed…” -1984 about the Big Lie

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by stalin View Post
                          see, those ''pesky'' nazis were not fools!
                          Why did they lose the war then?
                          “To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed…” -1984 about the Big Lie

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by General Staff View Post
                            Originally Posted by stalin
                            You, ''free'' people of the ''West''- are you any better than us?
                            Yes. I believe so.
                            Good answer! Good luck living furtherwith this attitude! It is really funny!
                            Kind regards
                            Igor

                            * My grandfathers WW2 memoirs - Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, 1944-1945.
                            * On the question of "2 mil. rapes" by RKKA
                            * Verdicts of RKKA Military Tribunals for crimes against civilians in 1945

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sheik Yerbouti View Post
                              Are you saying that there are too many scoundrels in Russia to make democracy work?
                              democracy or not, by ''scoundrel'' - i actually meant:
                              ''... a thief steals and knows he is a scoundrel, but i've heard of a gentleman who broke open the mail...very likely he thought he was doing a gentlemanly thing!...''
                              and:
                              ''... man grows used to everything, the scoundrel!"
                              - ( 'Crime and Punishment', F. Dostoevsky )





                              .
                              Last edited by stalin; 23 May 07, 06:21.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by stalin View Post
                                democracy or not, by ''scoundrel'' - i actually meant:
                                ''... a thief steals and knows he is a scoundrel, but i've heard of a gentleman who broke open the mail...very likely he thought he was doing a gentlemanly thing!...''
                                and:
                                ''... man grows used to everything, the scoundrel!"
                                - ( 'Crime and Punishment', F. Dostoevsky )

                                .
                                So you are saying that people are scoundrels by nature, and it is wrong to change it?
                                “To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed…” -1984 about the Big Lie

                                Comment

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