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  • Originally posted by General Staff View Post
    1) It's not indisputable, or we wouldn't be having this discussion. I'd be round at your house or apartment just taking whatever I wanted. Just debatable.
    2) EU. OK, you boys take your time. But I predict you'll come round eventually when you look at the alternative(s).
    3) EU pressure mechanism. No we leave that to NATO. It seems to do OK especially since another Capitalist wonder is to get Turkey to join NATO while keeping it out of the EU. Another reason for you to hurry and embrace option 2.
    My friend, you do not get. IMHO. EU (I mean it in a broad sense as European culture) and Russia are teo diffrent worlds. We do not want to become Euopeans the way you see it. And we do not want you bedcome Russians either.

    From historical perspective it was Europe that was banging on Russia's door trying to impose its values, not other way around. The 20th century Communist flux (the idea that was not completely Russian any way) was an exception. I think it was a big mistake trying to take East Europe into USSR's sphear of influence. I think USSR should have been more isolationist. It does not mean to be hostile at all. It is about having protective attitude towards local values.

    4) Water. Mainland. Yes, I heard of that once. Is it really real? I dimly recall an old newspaper headline- 'Fog in channel, continent cut off'. Please tell me it's not true.
    What I ment was that SS memorabilia is forbiden in one/several of EU countries. As well as if I just try to say that the number 6mil may be in reallity only 5,5mil. I might get problem just because of that little math excersice.

    So my conclusion is that the human rights that you find so valuable (so do I, by the way) is a relative thing. And the rights are taken and given depending on surcomstances. Regardless of political system.
    Kind regards
    Igor

    * My grandfathers WW2 memoirs - Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, 1944-1945.
    * On the question of "2 mil. rapes" by RKKA
    * Verdicts of RKKA Military Tribunals for crimes against civilians in 1945

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Sheik Yerbouti View Post
      So Mongols were better rulers than bolsheviks, since the latter changed everything, and were more than willing to export their value system to other nations?
      Kind of, except that they were not rullers in a conventional sense. The local matters were practically fully conducted by the local lords.

      In this retrospect I would say they were better... still I do not think you can use word "better" as such. Apples - pairs.

      And BTW communism (or the way the system of power in USSR) worked changed A LOT during the period 1917 - 1990.
      Kind regards
      Igor

      * My grandfathers WW2 memoirs - Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, 1944-1945.
      * On the question of "2 mil. rapes" by RKKA
      * Verdicts of RKKA Military Tribunals for crimes against civilians in 1945

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Egorka View Post
        Kind of, except that they were not rullers in a conventional sense. The local matters were practically fully conducted by the local lords.
        Reminds me a bit of the Russian rule in Finland from 1809 onwards. Finland had full autonomy, so everything was left to local rulers (FE jurisdiction, money, army etc.). It worked exceptionally well until early 1900s, when the process of Russification started. The Finns didn't like it, and eventually it, along with WWI, led to the independence.
        “To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed…” -1984 about the Big Lie

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sheik Yerbouti View Post
          Reminds me a bit of the Russian rule in Finland from 1809 onwards. Finland had full autonomy, so everything was left to local rulers (FE jurisdiction, money, army etc.). It worked exceptionally well until early 1900s, when the process of Russification started. The Finns didn't like it, and eventually it, along with WWI, led to the independence.
          Yes, I agree.
          Kind regards
          Igor

          * My grandfathers WW2 memoirs - Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, 1944-1945.
          * On the question of "2 mil. rapes" by RKKA
          * Verdicts of RKKA Military Tribunals for crimes against civilians in 1945

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Egorka View Post
            1. My friend, you do not get [it]. IMHO. EU (I mean it in a broad sense as European culture) and Russia are two different worlds. We do not want to become Europeans the way you see it. And we do not want you [to] become Russians either.

            2. I think it was a big mistake trying to take East Europe into USSR's sphere of influence.

            3. What I meant was that SS memorabilia is forbidden in one/several EU countries. As well if I just try to say that the number 6mil may be in reality only 5,5mil. I might get problem just because of that little maths exercise.

            4. So my conclusion is that the human rights that you find so valuable (so do I, by the way) is a relative thing. And the rights are taken and given depending on circumstances. Regardless of political system.
            1. I don't have to. I'm there already in those sunlit uplands. You do. Follow Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. Ukraine is banging on the door asking to be let in. Georgia too. Byelorus seems a puppet state. Kazakhstan- well Borat Sagdiyev speaks for them most eloquently. The other 'stans'- all of them- seem basket cases. It's all about current economics not politics or history.

            2. Looking back probably yes over time. Though on the day it looked like a sound geopolitical decision. Especially since you'd already moved in. Even a rabid stupid Capitalist running dog like myself knows that possession is 90% of the law.

            3. What was it Stalin said about death and statistics? I don't think people would be too offended as long as the 'm' for millions remains.

            4. Sure. But it's an ideal to shoot for- err sorry- and remember. Even in the US rights were denied Japanese citizens during WWII and they ended up interned. As long as I've got my one vote and get to take it out for a test drive regularly- and the result is correctly recorded- I'm fairly content.
            Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
            (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by General Staff View Post
              ... Red Army...The only time they seem to have mounted a 'clever' campaign was in Manchuria in 1945. The rest were just attritional meatgrinders, sometimes for both sides (Kursk, Stalingrad), the other for one (Winter War, Mars, Berlin). In the west we don't work that way...
              and how you, ''clever guys'', work it in the ''west''?
              how comes - you failed to demonstrate your cleverness and skill during the wwII?
              how comes that all the major and crucial battles (moscow, stalingrad, kursk) took place on eastern front?
              how comes that the red army alone - destroyed up to 78% of army of wehrmacht?

              sorry, but - the western allies ''clever'' were not!
              at best: smart-assed - that's what they were!!
              -
              Last edited by stalin; 22 May 07, 12:04.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Bartek View Post
                ... 2007 - 1650 = 357 and this is the difference between You and me ,more than 357 years.
                so, fooking, what - now?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by General Staff View Post
                  ... you boys should think about joining the EU...
                  1)...
                  2)...
                  3) travel/work/live anywhere else in the EU.
                  4) flip through any posters or calendars (SS and Soviet Worker or NKVD memorabilia are permitted too).
                  5) get to take a decent non-inflationary currency/salary home with the Euro...
                  all aforementioned is available for us right now, so - why join the eu?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by General Staff View Post
                    ... Perhaps you boys should think about joining the EU too?...
                    nope.
                    because - the eu sucks.
                    we best join china and north korea!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by stalin View Post
                      and how you, ''clever guys'', work it in the ''west''?
                      and how comes - you failed to demonstrate your cleverness and skill during the ww2?
                      how comes that all the major and crucial battles (moscow, stalingrad, kursk) took place on eastern front?
                      how comes that the red army alone - destroyed up to 78% of army of wehrmacht?

                      sorry, but - the western allies ''clever'' were not!
                      smart-assed - that's what they were!!
                      -
                      The cleverness and skill of the "West" was in getting you boys to provide the 'cannon fodder', while we'd provide some of the equipment. The ultimate and best Capitalist plot.

                      Crucial battles- Nazism saw Bolshevism or Communism as the main enemy. Not the "West". Hence their drive into Russia rather than finishing off Britain first- maybe a major strategic blunder. One could argue another Capitalist ploy, but then Enigma had warned Stalin but the USSR didn't believe it (a marvelous Capitalist double-entendre ploy).

                      Yes. The Red Army destroyed 78% of the Wehrmacht. Other anti-Fascist elements in the East (Greeks, Poles, Balkan folks etc...) another percentage. The Americans and British the rest. And many Germans struggled- the 9th/12th Army's story is particularly tragic- to get over the Elbe within Allied lines. Why were so many heading in such a hurry for one anti-Fascist army as opposed to another?

                      Again, all part of the master Capitalist Plan to rule the world with minimum casualties and least cost. And guess what? It's working. The Berlin wall is a tourist attraction and there are MacDonald's restaurants I believe in Moscow (one of the largest in the world?).

                      http://encarta.msn.com/media_701765522_761553017_-1_1/McDonald's_in_Moscow.html

                      Resistance is futile. Join us or perish on the rubbish heap of history.
                      Last edited by General Staff; 22 May 07, 12:33.
                      Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
                      (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sheik Yerbouti View Post
                        So Mongols were better rulers than bolsheviks, since the latter changed everything, and were more than willing to export their value system to other nations?
                        the mongols were not better than bolsheviks or american democracy promoters,
                        they only were different from those.

                        Comment


                        • I agree, Gaspodin thovaritj Stalin!

                          Eu nix karosh!
                          “For there is nothing more serious than a lunatic when he comes to the central point of his lunacy.”

                          Max Sterner

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by General Staff View Post
                            The cleverness and skill of the "West" was in getting you boys to provide the 'cannon fodder', while we'd provide some of the equipment...
                            ah, now i see...
                            well, at least - you guys might have said ''thank you, ruskie/cannon fodder'' now.
                            that would make you more honour, anyway.


                            Originally posted by General Staff View Post
                            ... many Germans struggled- the 9th/12th Army's story is particularly tragic- to get over the Elbe within Allied lines. Why were so many heading in such a hurry for one anti-Fascist army as opposed to another?...
                            you know the answer, so - why all this hypocrisy?
                            nazis were an occupants of russian territories and - not of those of the usa or britain.
                            also, nazis did remember well - how cruelly they treated russians.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by stalin View Post
                              nope.
                              because - the eu sucks.
                              we best join china and north korea!
                              Kim is waiting for you:

                              http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/24/op...erland&emc=rss
                              Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
                              (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by General Staff View Post
                                Kim is waiting for you...
                                and for you too.
                                because - these ''pesky'' mongoloids are about to take over the world!

                                Comment

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