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  • Originally posted by Sheik Yerbouti View Post
    I must say that is an interesting view. Might it have something to do with the fact that Russia was under Mongol (or their descendants) rule when most of Europe experienced Renaissance?
    the mongols weren't much of influence on russia,
    since - they left all of its institutions (the state system, authority, religion) intact.

    the ''golden horde'' was interested in the imposition of taxes, only.
    see, the mongols didn't ''export'' their value system to other nations.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by stalin View Post
      And what especially bad [did] the Soviet Union did there?

      Strategic bombing? Come on, if that would have been enough - why wait till Red Army takes Berlin? Bomb the city and sign a pact with surrendered nazis!

      nah... that wouldn't have been so simply - this time. The Red Army prior and after WW2 are completely different matters.
      Loot. Rob. Steal.

      Berlin? Again Capitalist plot to weaken Red Army. Marvelous success. And under cover of Strategic Bombing campaign- and other diversions like Normandy and Italy- to convince Stalin we were really trying to help. When Stalin asked how many divisions the Pope had, he was close to the truth of the secret plot- Roosevelt giggled, then said more than us but less than the Soviets.

      Red Army prior/post WWII as different. Yes. Of course. Experience. Staggering casualties. Purges. Trotsky. Communism. The only time they seem to have mounted a 'clever' campaign was in Manchuria in 1945. The rest were just attritional meatgrinders, sometimes for both sides (Kursk, Stalingrad), the other for one (Winter War, Mars, Berlin). In the west we don't work that way, and history is on our side.
      Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
      (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

      Comment


      • Originally posted by stalin View Post
        internet forums and democracy are incompatible matters.
        democracy means anarchy, in this case, and you know it.
        still want democracy??
        go to a local pub, then.
        The democracy is something like that :
        At 1650 AD at Warsaw Russian diplomat Jurij Gawriłowicz Puszkin demanded the death penalty for books publisher from Gdansk because of ONE BOOK.
        The book was about Polish King and The Grand Duke of Lithuania Wladyslaw IV,for Puszkin the deadly offence was some facts from that book ,just like the lack of words :"tsar and great kniaz " ,or "hospodar the great " at the fragments about tsar.
        Puszkin told that the publisher should be headed off immediately and the book should be burned,Poland should also payed 500 000 zloty's contribution ,and beg the great tsar to forgive.
        The answer of King's Council was :"The King and we the Lords of King's Council do not ordered to write the books and do not forbid to write;when publisher printed something good and justice then we commend him,when the stupid men write something stupid ,untrue or wrong then we The Lords of King Council laugh of it.(...) .At our land ( at Poland and Lithuania ) the publishing of books is free ,just of the law,just of the customs of nations."

        2007 - 1650 = 357 and this is the difference between You and me ,more than 357 years.
        Guerrero contra marxismo

        Comment


        • Originally posted by stalin View Post
          the mongols weren't much of influence on russia,
          since - they left all of its institutions (the state system, authority, religion) intact.

          the ''golden horde'' was interested in the imposition of taxes, only.
          see, the mongols didn't ''export'' their value system to other nations.
          Stalin is right. In case you do not know the Qrusades were not only going to Palestine, but to Russia too! Essentially for Russia there was a choise between staying itself and giving money to the Mongols or being subjected to the Germanisation and Catolisation.

          So next time you flip through the WW2 German posters and see one of the SS poster calling for Qrusade against Bolshevism you will know that it has deeper routes than you may think.
          Kind regards
          Igor

          * My grandfathers WW2 memoirs - Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, 1944-1945.
          * On the question of "2 mil. rapes" by RKKA
          * Verdicts of RKKA Military Tribunals for crimes against civilians in 1945

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Egorka View Post
            In my understanding Trotsky's understanding of communism was very different from what was in USSR and other east european countries.
            At March 1919 at Astrachan during the workers manifestation Czekists open fire from machine guns and used handgrenades against 10 000 people .2000 were been murdered at the streets of Astrachan,more than 6000 a few days at mass executions at city cementary.
            At November 1920 at Sevastopol Czeka ershot 500 harbour workers ,it was only for the beginnig,at 28th November 1356 men and 278 women; 30th November 1114 men and 88 women.
            At 1918 Lenin told :" take the hostages ,especially women and children it will break down the resistance of peasants".
            About what kind of understanding have You written ?
            Guerrero contra marxismo

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Egorka View Post
              Stalin is right. In case you do not know the Qrusades were not only going to Palestine, but to Russia too! Essentially for Russia there was a choise between staying itself and giving money to the Mongols or being subjected to the Germanisation and Catolisation.

              So next time you flip through the WW2 German posters and see one of the SS poster calling for Qrusade against Bolshevism you will know that it has deeper routes than you may think.
              Yes. And oddly enough to places like Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. Perhaps you boys should think about joining the EU too?

              1) You get the first few years for free (or are heavily subsidized to improve your infrastructure).
              2) can leave anytime.
              3) travel/work/live anywhere else in the EU.
              4) flip through any posters or calendars (SS and Soviet Worker or NKVD memorabilia are permitted too).
              5) get to take a decent non-inflationary currency/salary home with the Euro.

              You just have to give up thinking Soviet and start thinking Russian or even- heaven help us all and someone can give me a single shot to the back of my neck if they want (it's got to be a Nagan since I don't want a missfire or any subsequent health problems)- European.

              Join us- Workers of the world unite! Throw off your chains!
              Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
              (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Egorka View Post
                Essentially for Russia there was a choice between staying itself and giving money to the Mongols or being subjected to the Germanization and Catholi[cism].
                You perhaps should have kept the money and turned west. You were halfway there already. I believe the original Rus in Kiev were from Sweden and hitched up with some local girls.
                Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
                (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bartek View Post
                  At March 1919 at Astrachan during the workers manifestation Czekists open fire from machine guns and used handgrenades against 10 000 people .2000 were been murdered at the streets of Astrachan,more than 6000 a few days at mass executions at city cementary.
                  At November 1920 at Sevastopol Czeka ershot 500 harbour workers ,it was only for the beginnig,at 28th November 1356 men and 278 women; 30th November 1114 men and 88 women.
                  At 1918 Lenin told :" take the hostages ,especially women and children it will break down the resistance of peasants".
                  About what kind of understanding have You written ?
                  About the same as you wrote. Except that Trotsky, as I know, was seriously for the world revolution, wheras Stalin was in fact more moderate.

                  I think Trotsky and Lenin would most likely to be worse than Stalin.

                  We got easily away, guys!
                  Kind regards
                  Igor

                  * My grandfathers WW2 memoirs - Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, 1944-1945.
                  * On the question of "2 mil. rapes" by RKKA
                  * Verdicts of RKKA Military Tribunals for crimes against civilians in 1945

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by General Staff View Post
                    You perhaps should have kept the money and turned west.
                    Since when and in which country selling own identity and soul for money is considerd to be cool?

                    You were halfway there already. I believe the original Rus in Kiev were from Sweden and hitched up with some local girls.
                    I admier the firmness of your believe. I have a lot to learn from you.
                    Kind regards
                    Igor

                    * My grandfathers WW2 memoirs - Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, 1944-1945.
                    * On the question of "2 mil. rapes" by RKKA
                    * Verdicts of RKKA Military Tribunals for crimes against civilians in 1945

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Egorka View Post
                      Since when and in which country selling own identity and soul for money is considered to be cool?

                      I admire the firmness of your belief. I have a lot to learn from you.
                      1) When there's no money left, no soul and identity is in question.
                      2) Firmness. When I hear that from a Russian, I get worried. Very very worried. You don't have much to learn from me- just look to yourself. It's all there, you just have to find it. Or look for it.
                      Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
                      (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by General Staff View Post
                        Yes. And oddly enough to places like Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. Perhaps you boys should think about joining the EU too?

                        1) You get the first few years for free (or are heavily subsidized to improve your infrastructure).
                        2) can leave anytime.
                        3) travel/work/live anywhere else in the EU.
                        4) flip through any posters or calendars (SS and Soviet Worker or NKVD memorabilia are permitted too).
                        5) get to take a decent non-inflationary currency/salary home with the Euro.

                        You just have to give up thinking Soviet and start thinking Russian or even- heaven help us all and someone can give me a single shot to the back of my neck if they want (it's got to be a Nagan since I don't want a missfire or any subsequent health problems)- European.

                        Join us- Workers of the world unite! Throw off your chains!
                        Ok so there prerequisities of admiting the undisputable greatness of the European consumer society?

                        Well Russia, imho, will never be part of EU. Fist of all Europe will never allow it. Secondly I do not think many people want it.

                        Bythe way you do not see EU as pressure mechanism towards other non members? Like on the street: join the gang and be one of use or else... No?

                        And regarding flipping through SS posters... I think you living across the wather from the European mainland has confused it a bit... Should I explain why?
                        Kind regards
                        Igor

                        * My grandfathers WW2 memoirs - Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, 1944-1945.
                        * On the question of "2 mil. rapes" by RKKA
                        * Verdicts of RKKA Military Tribunals for crimes against civilians in 1945

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by General Staff View Post
                          1) When there's no money left, no soul and identity is in question.
                          2) Firmness. When I hear that from a Russian, I get worried. Very very worried. You don't have much to learn from me- just look to yourself. It's all there, you just have to find it. Or look for it.
                          So how much do I have to pay for you to change your opinion? Are you cheap? I surely hope so as we russians are bit low on the budget.
                          Kind regards
                          Igor

                          * My grandfathers WW2 memoirs - Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, 1944-1945.
                          * On the question of "2 mil. rapes" by RKKA
                          * Verdicts of RKKA Military Tribunals for crimes against civilians in 1945

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Egorka View Post
                            Ok so there [are the] prerequisites of admitting the indisputable greatness of the European consumer society?

                            Well Russia, imho, will never be part of EU. First of all Europe will never allow it. Secondly I do not think many people want it.

                            By the way you do not see EU as pressure mechanism towards other non members? Like on the street: join the gang and be one of use or else... No?

                            And regarding flipping through SS posters... I think you living across the water from the European mainland has confused it a bit... Should I explain why?
                            1) It's not indisputable, or we wouldn't be having this discussion. I'd be round at your house or apartment just taking whatever I wanted. Just debatable.
                            2) EU. OK, you boys take your time. But I predict you'll come round eventually when you look at the alternative(s).
                            3) EU pressure mechanism. No we leave that to NATO. It seems to do OK especially since another Capitalist wonder is to get Turkey to join NATO while keeping it out of the EU. Another reason for you to hurry and embrace option 2.
                            4) Water. Mainland. Yes, I heard of that once. Is it really real? I dimly recall an old newspaper headline- 'Fog in channel, continent cut off'. Please tell me it's not true.
                            Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
                            (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Egorka View Post
                              So how much do I have to pay for you to change your opinion? Are you cheap? I surely hope so as we Russians are [a] bit low on the budget.
                              Yes. You can pay me a копьё and- as a Capitalist- I am duty bound to sing any song you want or dance with any bear you like (a girl might get you a целковый рубль).

                              Join the EU and your budget might improve, especially since for the first few years I'll be paying for it.
                              Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
                              (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by stalin View Post
                                the mongols weren't much of influence on russia,
                                since - they left all of its institutions (the state system, authority, religion) intact.

                                the ''golden horde'' was interested in the imposition of taxes, only.
                                see, the mongols didn't ''export'' their value system to other nations.
                                So Mongols were better rulers than bolsheviks, since the latter changed everything, and were more than willing to export their value system to other nations?
                                Last edited by Sheik Yerbouti; 22 May 07, 04:10.
                                “To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed…” -1984 about the Big Lie

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