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OT: Western participants in color revolutions

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  • #31
    I live in northern sweden and the golf stream don´t seem to know that it should be warm .
    Last edited by Erkki; 19 Apr 07, 14:48.
    “For there is nothing more serious than a lunatic when he comes to the central point of his lunacy.”

    Max Sterner

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Andrey View Post
      Today Russian TV Channel "Russia" showed French documentary movie "revolution.com". In this movie a few French reporters spoke how Americans supported and helped to revolutions in Serbia, Ukraine, Georgia and Kirgizstan. They interviewed a few Americans and a few "leaders" of the revolutions who spoke without hiding that the revolutions were done with American financial help and after the training organized on American money. American instructors taught the Serbian "revolutioners", than those Serbs taught the Georgians and Ukrainians on American money.

      Those interviewed people spoke everything openly!

      Did you hear about this documentarty?

      In any case in Russia this scenario will failed. We are not Ukraine.
      Watch out, Andrey! The bad foreigners are coming to get you! The xenophobia shown by some of the Russians members here is quite frankly shocking.
      That's right, Andrey. All those thousands if not millions of people who came out to denounce dictatorships during these revolutions were just paid agents of a "Evil" West.
      Except the West is democratic, so what is the problem? Are you afraid of democracy? Only in Russia, an argument of foreign financial support can be used as an insult and an excuse for restricting peaceful organisations.

      Boasting about no being Ukraine in this context is nothing to be proud of.
      You are right. You are not Ukraine. You would not complain when elections are rigged or stolen. You swallow propaganda of your leaders without questions. Seems Homo-Sovieticus is alive and well in Russia.
      Last edited by pawelj; 20 Apr 07, 12:57.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by pawelj View Post
        ... the West is democratic...Are you afraid of democracy?...
        er...
        the west is not democratic, in fact.
        the west is corporacratic.

        corporocracy - that's what the west offers russia, not democracy.
        the west wants to get its hands on gas and oil and other resources of russia.

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        • #34
          corporocracy? Can you tell me what that is? Has it anything to do with capitalism? or imperialism ? And what is the difference between those two.

          I must say that I am getting really confused with all this strange words.
          “For there is nothing more serious than a lunatic when he comes to the central point of his lunacy.”

          Max Sterner

          Comment


          • #35
            I am new to this board, but I'm finding out quickly that one should not take anything posted by stalin very seriously, even overlooking the fact that he chose a name of the one of the bloodiest dictators and war criminals in history.

            If the posts supposed to be in the spirit of the name then: ha, ha, ha
            , but if posts are serious, then he is in need of some education, and perhaps some good taste.

            I wonder if anyone picked hitler, himmler, etc.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by pawelj View Post
              Watch out, Andrey! The bad foreigners are coming to get you! The xenophobia shown by some of the Russians members here is quite frankly shocking.
              That's right, Andrey. All those thousands if not millions of people who came out to denounce dictatorships during these revolutions were just paid agents of a "Evil" West.
              Except the West is democratic, so what is the problem? Are you afraid of democracy? Only in Russia, an argument of foreign financial support can be used as an insult and an excuse for restricting peaceful organisations.

              Boasting about no being Ukraine in this context is nothing to be proud of.
              You are right. You are not Ukraine. You would not complain when elections are rigged or stolen. You swallow propaganda of your leaders without questions. Seems Homo-Sovieticus is alive and well in Russia.
              Bla-bla-bla...

              Nice slogans of a guy poisoned by anti-Russian propaganda.

              America have already shown which "democracy" it had bringed to Iraq.

              People of the Ukraine have seen now what the Orange Revolution and its leaders were and now the Orange Revolution is failing in the Ukraine.

              Now people of the Ukraine don't want to be US puppets, the same is about the people of Iraq.

              Democracy means rule of people and not rule of puppets of oversea masters. Your country is discrediting the idea of democracy.

              PS: If you want to get more polite answer write more polite posts yourself.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Erkki View Post
                corporocracy? Can you tell me what that is? Has it anything to do with capitalism? or imperialism?...I am getting really confused with all this strange words.
                the word ''corporocracy'', as obvious - i derived from word: ''corporation'',
                and no wonder it sonds strange - since i made it up myself.

                corporocracy is able to deal with all sorts of formations of a state,
                be it democratic or monarchic or anything else.
                corporocracy implements the interests of groups of businessmen involved,
                and is er... ''flexible'' as to the means by which it achieves the goals it set.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by stalin View Post
                  Corporocracy implements the interests of groups of businessmen involved, and is er... ''flexible'' as to the means by which it achieves the goals it set.
                  It sounds suspiciously like 'Tovarich'- http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tovarich

                  Turkish in origin it would seem. And could be mistaken for capitalism.
                  Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
                  (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by General Staff View Post
                    It sounds suspiciously like 'Tovarich'- http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tovarich
                    Turkish in origin it would seem. And could be mistaken for capitalism.
                    turkish language lessons...

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Andrey View Post
                      Bla-bla-bla...

                      Nice slogans of a guy poisoned by anti-Russian propaganda.

                      America have already shown which "democracy" it had bringed to Iraq.

                      People of the Ukraine have seen now what the Orange Revolution and its leaders were and now the Orange Revolution is failing in the Ukraine.

                      Now people of the Ukraine don't want to be US puppets, the same is about the people of Iraq.

                      Democracy means rule of people and not rule of puppets of oversea masters. Your country is discrediting the idea of democracy.

                      PS: If you want to get more polite answer write more polite posts yourself.
                      What was so impolite in my post? The fact that I should point out inconsistencies in your statements?
                      And the only anti-Russian propaganda I'm encountering is from post like yours and also from Russian media outlets like "Komsomolskaya Pravda", where anyone who is no a Russian puppet is obviously someone else's puppet. I'm guessing independent existence and choice outside of the perceived superpowers is not possible?

                      In relation to what US brought to Iraq, US did not bring democracy to Iraq, because democracy cannot be brought in like communism. It only allowed democracy to be established. Democracy, beyond the obvious trappings of elections and parliaments, requires a culture of respect of different and opposed views. This culture is lacking in Iraq. Problems in Iraq are not caused by Americans, but rather by opponents of democracy.

                      As to the wishes of the Ukrainians, in the last elections majority voted for pro-Western parties. It is a height of arrogance (or perhaps delusion) to claim to know what all Ukrainians (or Iraqis) really want. Any failures in Ukraine is mostly the result of the residue of previous system of institutionalised corruption. When you claim Orange leaders were US puppets, is it because you KNOW that Yanukhovych IS really a Moscow's puppet? But that is OK?
                      Two can play "call the puppet" game.

                      As to discrediting the idea of democracy, you have a lot to learn about those ideas. How can a idea that people should be allowed to make an free and informed choice of government be discredited? What alternative suggestions have you got?

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by stalin View Post
                        Turkish language lessons...
                        Yes, I guess this place is full of surprises. All free. Enjoy.
                        Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
                        (J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by pawelj View Post
                          What was so impolite in my post? The fact that I should point out inconsistencies in your statements?
                          And the only anti-Russian propaganda I'm encountering is from post like yours and also from Russian media outlets like "Komsomolskaya Pravda", where anyone who is no a Russian puppet is obviously someone else's puppet. I'm guessing independent existence and choice outside of the perceived superpowers is not possible?
                          Have you read "Komsomolskaya Pravda"? Funny...

                          In relation to what US brought to Iraq, US did not bring democracy to Iraq, because democracy cannot be brought in like communism. It only allowed democracy to be established. Democracy, beyond the obvious trappings of elections and parliaments, requires a culture of respect of different and opposed views. This culture is lacking in Iraq. Problems in Iraq are not caused by Americans, but rather by opponents of democracy.
                          You speak right words. But why your government tries to "bring" democravy to others if it can't be brought (how you said).

                          As to the wishes of the Ukrainians, in the last elections majority voted for pro-Western parties. It is a height of arrogance (or perhaps delusion) to claim to know what all Ukrainians (or Iraqis) really want. Any failures in Ukraine is mostly the result of the residue of previous system of institutionalised corruption. When you claim Orange leaders were US puppets, is it because you KNOW that Yanukhovych IS really a Moscow's puppet? But that is OK?
                          Two can play "call the puppet" game.
                          Wake up! In the last elections (to the parliament) your orange leaders lost. Yanukovich and his allies won and now Yanukovich is the Prime Minister. The people of the Ukraine showed what he think about it. The Orange Revolution failed.

                          As to discrediting the idea of democracy, you have a lot to learn about those ideas. How can a idea that people should be allowed to make an free and informed choice of government be discredited? What alternative suggestions have you got?
                          Bla-bla-bla... Nice words. How to discredit the idea? To turn the real democracy in a game "whose sponsors are richer and whose tricks are dirtier"! To invade in Iraq and to turn that country in "democratic" chaos with free elections, parliament, presidentr, foreign occupants in streets and complete chaos in the country.

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                          • #43
                            When I read pawelj's posts on this thread I recall March, 2003. In that time I discussed in another forum the events related to Iraq. The most of the members of that forum were Americans. They were 100% sure that their country was right, they were 100% sure that Saddam had forbidden WMD, that Saddam was connected to 9/11 events, that it was absolutely clear. When I said them the Russian position and what Russian people thought about it I was known very much new about me. One of those guys even said he wanted to kill me if he had opportunity to be nearly of me. They all spoke me that I was a Communist, that Russian mass media lied to the Russians and so on...

                            And what is going on now? More than 50% of Americans are against Iraq war, it is clearly proven fact that Saddam was not connected to Al-Qaeda and 9/11 events and that Saddam had no WMD. All what the Americans were ready to kill me is occurred one large false which poisoned their minds through the US mass media.

                            In 1999 NATO bombed Yugoslavia. The Westerners were sure that Milioshevich was second Hitler and made henocide of peaceful Albanians in Kosovo. And what do we know now? Miloshevich died in NATO's prison but NOBODY found any traces of henocide against Albanians in Kosovo. It again occurred one large false which poisoned the minds of the Westerners through their mass media.

                            Think about it when you will do your conclusions about the events in the Ukraine and Russia on the basis of the info you know from your mass media.

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