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(OT) Who's Killing Russia's News Reporters?

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  • Andrey
    replied
    Originally posted by amvas View Post
    Berezovsky is the most evil oligarkh. It was assumed here long ago....
    There is another very evil oligarch. His name is Mikhail Khodorkovsky. Oh, O forgot, he is "a fighter for civil rights", "a victim of Putin's regime" - :-).

    Khodorkovsky tried to get control over the Russian Parliament, he began to buy openly deputies.

    He was judged for the organization of a few murders and attempts to murder. The crimes were organized done by the chief of Yukos Security Service, who got orders to organize it from Khodorkovsky.

    They murdered, for example, Mayor of the town of Nefteyugansk, in which some of Yukos industry was situated.

    Leave a comment:


  • pp(est)
    replied
    Amvas,

    1) This wasn't just any critic. This was a defector. Killing him in a public manner serves as a powerful warning to potential future defectors. As long as Putin has at least some manner of deniability I don't think he cares much what we in the west think about him (as proven by his comments right after the Politovskaya killing or kissing little boys). As I said most people here think he is just another dictator anyway.

    2) If you intend to murder somebody as a warning to make a point, it doesn't really matter. As expected the murder has had no effect to Russia's foreign relations.

    3) Poison would be the preferred choice in the circumstances. Sniper rifles or car bombs would attract way too much attention in London (it isn't the wild Moscow you know), may cause significant collateral damage and are generally unreliable as means for assassination. Getting caught with an exotic substance can be explained away - bombs and sniper rifles cannot.

    4) It is obvious that nobody found the poison. Using substance which is not instantly recognised as poison for assassination and could be explained to have another purpose is not a bad idea.

    I am pretty certain that the assassins are far from UK and EU by now and it is unlikely that the murder will ever be solved completely. It would be a positive surprise if the Met could find the killer.

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Boys, imagine - you are a leader of some large country... (USA, Russia, GB, China, Luxemburg....)
    You have some pals critisizing you, or your politics, or your life at all....
    Several logical questions then...

    1) What benefit you'll get from their death? Will it cause silence among your critics?

    2) If you decides to kill anybody, what moment for doing this you'll choose?
    Probably it will not be the moment of some important international meetings, eh? there exists some more nice political pauses, for example the christmas holidays, when opposite mass-media are busy with something else...

    3) If you still wants to kill somebody, what way you would choose?
    I think you will not choose the loudest way, eh?
    Good old sniper rifle, or classical portion of explosives in needed time and place would be much more effective for any professional killer, than exotic poisons. Poisons are good, when they mask death under some illness (heart attack, for example)...

    4) If you still so like poisons, need you to use such a poison, traces of which can be find with any simplest measuring devices? (And radioactivity can be found very quickly, as a chemist I can prove this easily) Besides all, radioactive materials are very hard to transport and traces of them can't be washed out, even if you wish to do this very very much...

    If I were such a person, who were interested in somebody's death (save God from been such a one ) I would never take a decision for such a mission under given conditions.
    And vise versa, if I would be a person, who wants to makes everybody thinkg my opponent is interested in murdering, I would go on just in some similar way (the most loud murder in exotic way, choosing some unsuitable time for my opponent et.al.)

    So, I can only join to join to DaveT's exclamation "Good luck to the Metropolitan Police!"
    I feel we'll hear much more interesting details soon...

    Regards,
    Alex
    Last edited by amvas; 26 Nov 06, 00:52.

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave T View Post
    I don't think you can get polonium 210 on Ebay
    Recently I heard there exists an American company selling Polonium-210 to any customer

    If Berezovsky had arranged such a horrible demise for his friend to try and discredit Putin, he takes the prize for most evil oligarch in Europe if not the entire world. I still can't see that as being the most likely scenario.
    Berezovsky is the most evil oligarkh. It was assumed here long ago....

    Mr Putin's statements on the incident seem odd to me. He said he saw no definitive proof that it was a violent death." What, compared to 3 bullets in the head maybe?
    And you wished Mr. Putin to say "He deserved such a death"?
    Well, I remember one exotic death here.
    About 10-12 years ago one our businessman was poisoned by radioactive materials hidden in his phone apparatus. It was not FSB, it were his rivals-gangsters, as it was found later... As Berezovsky was here that time he must be acquired with this well-known case

    And how many ex FSB Officers now work for B and other oligarchs? How many current FSB Officers too, for that matter.
    Hardly you can find any statistics on this subject, but I can say, that ex-FSB officers are VERY welcomed in ANY private security services...
    So, I'm more than sure such a staff can be found among surrounding of any oligarkh... Lets say it's amatter of prestige to have such boys in their teams....

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave T
    replied
    Originally posted by pp(est) View Post
    It was the dastardly Finns again. Just like in 1939.

    More seriously, the use of such sophisticated method makes me incline even more to the position that this was a work of some state agency. It does serve a powerful message to all would-be defectors as well as all who dare investigate Russsian matters too much.
    I don't think you can get polonium 210 on Ebay , but informed "Security Experts" in the West say that criminal gangs have access to this sort of stuff and worse in the Russian Federation.
    You could argue that use of such exotic material was designed to make State involvement appear more likely.
    You could also consider the earlier claims of the deceased that the FSB have been employing criminal gangs to do assassinations for them and so assume that such material would be provided for them to carry out instructions.
    If Berezovsky had arranged such a horrible demise for his friend to try and discredit Putin, he takes the prize for most evil oligarch in Europe if not the entire world. I still can't see that as being the most likely scenario.
    Mr Putin's statements on the incident seem odd to me. He said he saw no definitive proof that it was a violent death." What, compared to 3 bullets in the head maybe?
    And how many ex FSB Officers now work for B and other oligarchs? How many current FSB Officers too, for that matter.
    Some interesting "facts" in Western press: a third of Russia' billionaires live in London. Over 1000 Russians worth £5 million live in Britain.and some 300,000 others have immigrated to UK in last 10 years - including members of Russian Mafia. The exiles have their own papers, magazine and a radio station. Roman Abramovich is said to be the second richest person in Britain, and a former business partner of Berezoksky. Does he also hold some Government position in Siberia?
    The so called third man has been named as Dmitry Kovtun. A fourth man, Vyaceslav Sokolenko, business partner of Lugovoi, was also at the hotel and met Litvineko. There are suggestions that the substance may have been administered before the day of the meetings however.
    All in all, something pretty sordid has gone on in London and it does nothing for the image of Putin and the Russian Federation.

    This story will run and run. Good luck to the Metropolitan Police!

    Leave a comment:


  • pp(est)
    replied
    It was the dastardly Finns again. Just like in 1939.

    More seriously, the use of such sophisticated method makes me incline even more to the position that this was a work of some state agency. It does serve a powerful message to all would-be defectors as well as all who dare investigate Russsian matters too much.
    Last edited by pp(est); 25 Nov 06, 13:45.

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  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim H. Moreno View Post
    News today is that a possible 'official' investigation by a British agency could start soon.

    Emergency council convenes to discuss former Russian spy's death
    It's really interesting to know, who poisoned that bastard with such an exotic way....

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim H. Moreno
    replied
    News today is that a possible 'official' investigation by a British agency could start soon.

    Emergency council convenes to discuss former Russian spy's death

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by pp(est) View Post
    you made me spill my coffee again!
    I read some reports of our frontier guards for the year 1939...
    Very interesting reading

    P.S. Try to drink Coca-Cola
    P.P.S. I'm not conected with Coca-cola trademark....

    Leave a comment:


  • pp(est)
    replied
    Originally posted by amvas View Post
    Prior to Manijla there were plenty of provocations from Finnish side.
    Read reports of Soviet border guards about them
    So, Manijla was an excuse, but it was not something too outstanding for Soviet-Finnish frontier
    you made me spill my coffee again!

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    Yesterday, Sergei Yastrzhembsky, the press-secretary of President of Russia declared: "We see a well made campaign or plan of consecutive discredit of Russia and its leader"

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by pp(est) View Post
    Quite right. Stalin did this with the Mainila shots to get an excuse to attack Finland. But the point is, Hitler and Stalin did those things to get an excuse to attack and claim legitimacy under international law. You are claiming these guys do this to get sympathy, i.e. a few sorry looks and perhaps a sympathy letter or two. This is just crazy.
    Prior to Manijla there were plenty of provocations from Finnish side.
    Read reports of Soviet border guards about them
    So, Manijla was an excuse, but it was not something too outstanding for Soviet-Finnish frontier

    Leave a comment:


  • pp(est)
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrey View Post
    It looks like you don't know history.

    The Nazies did the same when they invaded to Poland in 1939. They dressed a few SS-men in Polish military uniform and those SS-men attacked GERMAN radio-station in Gleivits to show to the World that the Poles did it.

    Quite right. Stalin did this with the Mainila shots to get an excuse to attack Finland. But the point is, Hitler and Stalin did those things to get an excuse to attack and claim legitimacy under international law. You are claiming these guys do this to get sympathy, i.e. a few sorry looks and perhaps a sympathy letter or two. This is just crazy.

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrey View Post
    I have read it and I haven't found obvious mistakes.

    But he didn't say any word who is Berezovsky except he is a Russian in exile.

    He didn't say that it is considered in Russia that Litvinenko lied about order to kill Berezovsky.

    And I have recognized that the guy who was earlier called "an ex-KGB officer" in this thread was Berezovsky's bodyguard!!!! So before the poisonong Litvinenko met to a Berezovsky's bodyguard and another Russian.
    My own version is that Berezovsky, which is No.1 in wish list for deportation to Russia wants to show Russian secret services as an evil forces ready to kill everybody (the same scenario likes to use Chechen terrorists, whose best friend Berezovsky is). So, this easy show with poisoning was played.
    Litvinenko has absolute no value now for anybody, but his enough famous figure for journalists to cause reaction in mass-media to the state of his health...

    So, the figure, who can get preferences from this poisoning is rather obvious - Berezovsky

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave T View Post
    [B]Originally Posted by Andrey
    Why FSB? Why not Mossad, CIA, MI5, mafia, his wife, lover of his wife and so on?

    Absence of any motive at present.
    There are no reasons for Russia to kill him RIGHT NOW.

    If he had potential to implicate FSB in killing of Politkovskaya.
    It was possible to kill him insensibly.

    You would accept security service hits on exiles in the UK if they were worthy targets, but not low level former employees.
    I would not sorry if FSB killed the rascal like Litvinenko. But it is fantasy to think they did it.

    Motive? Aren't you hearing the anti-Russian scream of your mass media?

    I doubt it exists to the extent you think.
    So what are we speaking about right now?

    What do you mean ex-KGB? KGB was closed in 1991.

    And was replaced by FSB and SVR - and other acronyms maybe. I presume Litvinenko and Lugovoi - the visitor from Moscow - served in KGB and successor Agencies.
    Fox News wrote Lugovoy was Berezovsky's bodyguard!

    I don't know about Gordievsky.

    Maybe his story is not well reported in Russia, but his wwas a massive defection.
    I know who Gordievsky is but I don't know what he did after he run away in the West and what is his position.

    But Litvinenko is a corrupt FSB official who betrayed his motherland and his duty. He was not serving to the Communists, he was serving in FSB of democratic Russia when he became a traitor.

    Traitor because of conscience or corruption?
    Consience? He is a corrupt Security Service officer who sold his honor for Berezovsky's money and who caused damage to his country by his lie.

    Leave a comment:

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