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(OT) Who's Killing Russia's News Reporters?

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  • Dave T
    replied
    Latest reports are of traces of polonium 210 at one of Berezovsky's offices in London....
    Don't say "I told you so" just yet though Alex

    Leave a comment:


  • kpush
    replied
    Originally posted by pp(est) View Post
    ...1. (more likely) The killer was FSB with or without direct authorisation from Putin, with the intent to punish a an FSB defector, silence a critic who was in the process of investigating Politovskaya murder, strike fear into the heart of anybody thinking to defect or criticize the Russian regime...
    In support of this version might be given publicity results of his investigation or jast any material. I have not see in press something new about Politovskaya murder since first of November.

    On me it logically if soon the world will know about one more murder in this series. It is good time to blame for it Putin, FSB and Russia in general.

    Leave a comment:


  • pp(est)
    replied
    amvas, what important international meetings are you talking about? I know no exceedingly important meetings going on. If you think the Russian negotiations with EU or the WTO accession are these important meetings then the world is by far more interested in Russian trade regulation - more particularly the artificial delays at borders, the import boycott for Polish meat, the fish debacle, the embargo of Georgia, the threatened boycott of all EU foodstuffs. EU leaders are way more worried about the gas pipeline situation last year in Ukraine than they are about Russia killing off its journalists and spies, for all most EU leaders care Putin can arrange a public beheading in the Red Square of all the remaining Russian opposition politicians and all what would happen in Europe would be a few angry editorials .

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by pp(est) View Post
    amvas, of course it is possible that the assassins intended for this poison to be found. The use of such a bizarre and sophisticated poison is sure to strike fear into the hearts of the Russian emigre community in London. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but in my view there are two possibilities.
    I don't think it was done to fear anybody. I think it was done to make a show from poisioning...
    If it was one shot, or a single blow it would be a subject of talks for about a few days, of a week.
    But using such an exotic way gave chance to PR this murder for quite a long time...
    So, reasonable question appears - who is interested in long-play scandal?

    1. (more likely) The killer was FSB with or without direct authorisation from Putin, with the intent to punish a an FSB defector, silence a critic who was in the process of investigating Politovskaya murder, strike fear into the heart of anybody thinking to defect or criticize the Russian regime.
    Benefits for FSB still not obvious.
    In Londor the same Berezovsky, Zakaev, Gordievsky, Rezun lives, who made much more harm, than Litvinenko.
    If FSB decided to use the most radical ways it would be more logical to start just from that figures, but not from the small puppet....

    As for the murder of Politkovskaya I also disagree with you.
    You couldn't find worse moment for power to kill a journalsit (or traitor).
    You need to be extremely stupid doing this just before important international meetings....
    That's why both cases are too suspicios and I can't believe our power can miss such a "small detail" if we suppose it might be responsible for those cases

    2. (less likely but possible) The killing is about some business/mafiya dispute of which we don't yet know about.
    I think both murders is a sor of anti-Putin's black PR.
    Probably they even can be not connected.
    Politkovskaya promoted publication of one adult clip maiden with mobile phone. So, she could make blood enemies among heroes of that clip....

    Regards,
    Alex

    Leave a comment:


  • pp(est)
    replied
    amvas, of course it is possible that the assassins intended for this poison to be found. The use of such a bizarre and sophisticated poison is sure to strike fear into the hearts of the Russian emigre community in London. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but in my view there are two possibilities.

    1. (more likely) The killer was FSB with or without direct authorisation from Putin, with the intent to punish a an FSB defector, silence a critic who was in the process of investigating Politovskaya murder, strike fear into the heart of anybody thinking to defect or criticize the Russian regime.

    2. (less likely but possible) The killing is about some business/mafiya dispute of which we don't yet know about.

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by pp(est) View Post
    Amvas, I have a client who deals with medical equipment, including stuff which have radioactive components. You need a license to sell the stuff, but it can be carried around by pretty much anybody.
    Still don't think it's a good idea to walk around any town having any radioactive materials in your pocket...

    The traces of radioactive materials were found in the Sushi bar and elsewhere only after it was known what to look for. It is quite possible that whoever used this might have thought it can wash out of the body before the exact poison is ever discovered (unfortunately in poisoning cases it is not rare that the exact poison is never discovered). We don't know the details on how they discovered it, but the fact that it took some time to discover it suggests it is possible that it might have been missed altogether.

    Khdorovsky will have to wait, my flight is boarding.
    As I have allready said there are plenty of other poisons, traces of which are almost impossible to find.
    It's not much professional to use poison, which has so specific effect to show the person had been realy poison, but not died from some disease.
    I don't think assassines expected traces of radioactive posion not to be finally detected.
    Maybe they were interested just in opposite eh? I mean police TO DETECT traces of poison, where THEY want to place them?
    Didn't you checked up possibility of such a variant?
    What if traces of this element is found in embassy of some state after some anonimous call?
    So, usage such a strange way of poisoning leaves too many questions, which are hard to answer....
    IMHO, Litvinenko was killed by his own friends connected with Berezovskiy and Chechen terrorist Zakaev...
    He was worked off material and had to become a "sacrificial victim" in that PR war, Berezovsky performs against Russia

    Leave a comment:


  • pp(est)
    replied
    Amvas, I have a client who deals with medical equipment, including stuff which have radioactive components. You need a license to sell the stuff, but it can be carried around by pretty much anybody.

    The traces of radioactive materials were found in the Sushi bar and elsewhere only after it was known what to look for. It is quite possible that whoever used this might have thought it can wash out of the body before the exact poison is ever discovered (unfortunately in poisoning cases it is not rare that the exact poison is never discovered). We don't know the details on how they discovered it, but the fact that it took some time to discover it suggests it is possible that it might have been missed altogether.

    Khdorovsky will have to wait, my flight is boarding.

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave T View Post
    Apparently Polonium 210 emits Alpha rays that cannot penetrate the skin or even paper, so it is safe to transport and only causes this damage when ingested. For this reason it was not detectable from directly the patient but was found in urine samples. It may pose difficulties when/if an autopsy is carried out.
    Yes, "alpha-rays" are worse than others detected (as they passes only ~4 cm length) in organism. But I meant every radioactive material can be traced much more easily than non-radioactive. you see how quickly traces of Polonium were found in sushi-bar, and other places visited by Litvinenko?
    This only proves my point....

    The case of the radioactive phone murder Alex mentioned sounds interesting and will doubtless interest the Met too.
    Yes, that was very unusual case. Therefore it's very famous here...

    As for Khodorkovsky, I thought he was jailed for fraud or tax evasion and sent to somewhere remote to be attacked by fellow prisoners etc. I haven't gone out of my way to read such stories before, but you can't avoid them in the media now. When my beginner's Russian improves a bit, I hope to try and see the reports in Russian papers.
    To tell you the truth, any of our oligarkhs can seat together with Khodorkovsky. THat folk simply tried to take part in political life. That was his mistake...Immediately all "skeletons in wardrobe" were found....

    BTW, much has been made here about the Russian Law passed a few months ago authorising assassinations on foreign soil. Hmmm.
    If law would be applied the first victim would be Berezovsky himself, but not his puppet...
    also, as I have already said there are plenty of much more serios figures...

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave T
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrey View Post
    To the point, what Metropolian Police is? I have never heard such name!!!

    I have heard Scotland Yard, MI5, MI6, SAS, CIC but not Metropolian Police!!!
    The Met, as it shortened to, is the biggest police force in Britain and covers the area of Greater London and surrounding areas. It also has responsibility for some national issues and has a large Counter Terrorism Department and this case is assigned to the Commander of that Dept. NewScotland Yard is the Headquarters building of the Met.
    Apparently Polonium 210 emits Alpha rays that cannot penetrate the skin or even paper, so it is safe to transport and only causes this damage when ingested. For this reason it was not detectable from directly the patient but was found in urine samples. It may pose difficulties when/if an autopsy is carried out.
    The case of the radioactive phone murder Alex mentioned sounds interesting and will doubtless interest the Met too. The Met will obviously be working with the Security Services - MI5 - and the Intelligence Service MI6 on this case.
    As for Khodorkovsky, I thought he was jailed for fraud or tax evasion and sent to somewhere remote to be attacked by fellow prisoners etc. I haven't gone out of my way to read such stories before, but you can't avoid them in the media now. When my beginner's Russian improves a bit, I hope to try and see the reports in Russian papers.
    BTW, much has been made here about the Russian Law passed a few months ago authorising assassinations on foreign soil. Hmmm.
    I hope the thread stays open so we can share viewpoints as developments are revealed. It makes the fibre glass rock spy device story pale by comparison. In a way you have to feel for Putin if he's blameless. How do you prove a negative? The potential damage to diplomatic relations is grave whether there was State involvement or not.
    Plenty of job vacancies for security staff for Russian exiles at the moment in UK. I guess many of them have had there complacency shaken.
    If we get the truth ever, I suspect it will be years from now....

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by pp(est) View Post
    There are plenty of medical equipment, photographic equipment, all sorts of measuring devices, etc. which use some radioactive materials as components. A few years ago even formula1 engines used radioactive components. Hiding very small quantities of radioactive substances among such equipment would be no problem at all, perhaps you would not want to carry such stuff in your handluggage in the airport, but transporting them together with other goods, say medical equipment, would be risk-free and very easy to accomplish.
    8 years ago I transported a portion of industrial catalyst to one chemical plant. It was neither radioactive nor serios poison. But I was much worried not to be caught with securities, because I had no official documents for its transfer because of some time limits...Of course everything would be resolved soon, but I would have got much troubles before this.
    So, if a man has Polonium in his pocket, he initially will have much more troubles with police in the case he's caught for some other reasons and it will become impossible to him to use just this poison after this.....

    Back to our case, there are plenty of poisons, which acts quickly and leaves no traces in organism. So, WHO needed that two-weeks-show with slow coming to death of Litvinenko????
    And how come well-equipped British doctors could't locate excess of radioactivity on Litvininko's body until his death?

    So, I' 100% sure it was done not by FSB...
    FSB used poison to kill Khattab (a famous terrorist in Chechnia).
    His death was very quick and until now nobody knows how it had been performed exactly and what poison they used.
    You see the differences?

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    To the point, what Metropolian Police is? I have never heard such name!!!

    I have heard Scotland Yard, MI5, MI6, SAS, CIC but not Metropolian Police!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • pp(est)
    replied
    There are plenty of medical equipment, photographic equipment, all sorts of measuring devices, etc. which use some radioactive materials as components. A few years ago even formula1 engines used radioactive components. Hiding very small quantities of radioactive substances among such equipment would be no problem at all, perhaps you would not want to carry such stuff in your handluggage in the airport, but transporting them together with other goods, say medical equipment, would be risk-free and very easy to accomplish.

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by pp(est) View Post
    The amount of Polonium involved was minuscule. It could have easily been hidden in some equipment which has completely legitimate use. This amount would not have been very useful for terrorist attack but as it happened - perfect for assassinating former spies.
    Even traces of radioactive elements are easily fixed by detectors, which are used by securities frigthened by possibility of terrorist attacks

    Leave a comment:


  • pp(est)
    replied
    The amount of Polonium involved was minuscule. It could have easily been hidden in some equipment which has completely legitimate use. This amount would not have been very useful for terrorist attack but as it happened - perfect for assassinating former spies.

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by pp(est) View Post
    Amvas,

    1) This wasn't just any critic. This was a defector. Killing him in a public manner serves as a powerful warning to potential future defectors.
    Silly version..
    There exists much more candidates to be killed then...
    the same Gordievsky, or Oleg Kalugin, or Viktor Rezun (Suvorov).
    they made much more harm to security, than that poor puppet Litvinenko...

    As long as Putin has at least some manner of deniability I don't think he cares much what we in the west think about him (as proven by his comments right after the Politovskaya killing or kissing little boys). As I said most people here think he is just another dictator anyway.
    Putin have no any features of dictator... So, your opinion, is only your opinion...
    As for the foreign veiw on Russia, you are wrong Putin doesn't take in mind this...At least I never noticed such a trends in his style

    2) If you intend to murder somebody as a warning to make a point, it doesn't really matter. As expected the murder has had no effect to Russia's foreign relations.
    See my comments above...

    3) Poison would be the preferred choice in the circumstances. Sniper rifles or car bombs would attract way too much attention in London (it isn't the wild Moscow you know), may cause significant collateral damage and are generally unreliable as means for assassination. Getting caught with an exotic substance can be explained away - bombs and sniper rifles cannot.
    So, you think walking with radioactive materials in your pocket is quite a safe travel... well, we have different points of view here... Maybe dimensions in comparison with rifle are different, but IMHO hardly you can answer to simple question "What you were going to do as a private person with that Polonium element?"... you easily can be treated as terrorist, and this can led to immediate death (remember that poor Brazilian chap killed in London subway?)

    4) It is obvious that nobody found the poison. Using substance which is not instantly recognised as poison for assassination and could be explained to have another purpose is not a bad idea.
    Any radiactive element is poison...They differs only by degree of poison...

    I am pretty certain that the assassins are far from UK and EU by now and it is unlikely that the murder will ever be solved completely. It would be a positive surprise if the Met could find the killer.
    Most often assassins themselves are dead after a few days...if to remember practice of Mafia...
    Last edited by amvas; 26 Nov 06, 03:49.

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