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(OT) Who's Killing Russia's News Reporters?

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  • Dave T
    replied
    Interesting stuff Andrey. Where is Chubais now?
    As for the Western press containing trash on the subject, I don't think that is the case with the paper in my links. You say it is a mixture of truth and lies. Facts and speculation I would say. What do you suggest they have deliberately stated knowing it to be untrue?
    It has been announced that 9 Metropolitan Police Officers are to fly to Moscow to make enqiries with the assistance of the authorities. Let's see how they get on.
    Today's paper quotes Col Valentin Velichko of the Dignity and Honour group as saying "We will punish those who rob Russia and the Russian People".
    I have little knowledge of Russia in the 90s when oligarchs made their billions and power cuts were being made, but can understand that feelings run deep and there may be great desire to seek revenge against those involved - as well as against traitors / detectors and dissident exiles who wage campaigns against Putin. However, if such feelings lead to murders on foreign soil, and groups threatening such action go unchecked, the expect Russia's reputation to suffer accordingly.
    BTW, it is reported that Khodorkovsky has had a Moscow Court refuse to hear his appeal against sentence for "tax evasion" so he is stuck in Krasnokamensk for another 5 years. .
    It is also reported that the Russian Government is not averse to making unexpected tax demands on Western Oil companies in what seems to be blackmail.
    This will perhaps encourage other oligarchs in Russia to keep a low profile or join the exodus to London.
    When will the West first experience a cut in power from Russia like Ukraine did last winter?
    Is Russia strong, independent and democratically ruled or is it a bully with a repressive regime and out of control crime groups and security services. I don't know enough to even venture an opinion, but the Litvinenko affair will contribute greatly to Westerners tending towards the latter view if it is not cleared up in coming weeks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave T View Post
    A standing ovation for Mr Putin? Ok, as has been posted here, a strong leader who has brought economic stability. How well are Russians informed about the daily disclosures here in the UK? If they do know, but are as dismissive and lacking in concern and suspicion about possible involvement of their Government and Security Services as Alex and Andrey, then I am amazed and disturbed. See articles from one UK main newspaper:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...npoison102.xml
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../npoison02.xml
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../npoison01.xml

    Nothing proven yet of course, but evidence is mounting and pointing towards those responsible coming from Moscow. If "Dignity and Honour" or any of the other named groups are involved, the big question is whether there was official knowledge and sanction for the action. Keep watching this space!
    It is mixture of truth and lie.

    There is an Association of Veterans of Special Services. It is not a terroris organization, it is how it is called. It contained very good men.

    There is Gen. Ivashov whose position is that Russia should have powerfull armed forces and independent foreign policy. He warns about anti-Russian Western policy, he speaks: "Take care with the West." So what?

    Yes, there is (there was!) Patriotic movement 'Motherland'. A few weeks ago it combined with "Party of Life" of Sergei Mironov, a famous senator, Putin's follower. So what?

    Yes, there was an attemp to kill Chubais, one of the famous leaders of "the Democrats". Really, it was done by a few officers od security service. Tey were caught, there was a judge over them. If Gen. Ivashov was connected to them, he would be arrested.

    A pair words about Chubais. Chibais was responsible for privatisation. Chubais promised to everyone that they would live well a few years later. In the result state plants and factories were sold to crime groups and to the people who became oligarchs a few years later. Millions of ordinary Russians stayed poor in the spite of Chubais' promises.

    There was a large scandal in the 90th when a few "Democrats" including Chubais wrote to Western readers a relatively small book "The History of Russian privatisation". They got VERY much money for that. There was a strong opinion that it was a type of bribe from the West to those guys.

    Then Chubais became the Main Chief of Russian Energetic System.

    What he did? He ordered to cut off the consumers who didn't pay.

    The Russians live in many-flat houses (5- or 9- floors usually) mainly. In the Soviet time some houses were municipal property, some - property of state plants. The people didn't see difference and lived by ordinary life.

    But here the USSR collapsed.

    It was the time of huge disaster for many people.

    Many large plants especially military ones collapsed or began to languish in poverty. They had no money to pay wages abd of course had no money to pay for the apartment houses that were considered their property. But people who lived in those houses were not guilty in that situation!

    Chubais ordered to cut off appartment houses!

    Sometimes army units and structures had no money to pay for electricity. The state didn't give them money! Russian Energetic System also is a state enterprise and should to serve for the state at first. But in the case of militaries Chubais also ordered to cut off military units if they didn't pay.

    What happened after that? Russian newspapers wrote a sad story about a young woman. She was being operated in a military hospital in Far East when Chubais' subordinates suddenly cut off the hospital from electricity. The hospital didn't pay for electricity. The operating-room suddenly was cut off from electricity, darkness falled. In the result the woman DIED. Russian newspapers printed the photo of that pretty young woman. She had a husband who loved her very much.

    Chubais' people cut off a Division of nuclear strategic submarines of the Pacific Fleet in the Kamchatka. Those were NUCLEAR submarines with NUCLEAR MISSILES!

    Chubais' people cut off the MAIN Russian center of monitoring of the threat of enemy missile attack. Russia was completely defenseless from enemy missile launches for a few hours.

    The amount of ordinary military units that were cut off is countless. Imagine, that barracks with soldiers stayed without heating in the conditions of a Russian winter!

    In such conditions the commanders of such military units not once ordered to their soldiers to capture the electrical substations which gave them electricity and to not let for Chibais' people to cut off the electricity from their units.

    Were those militaries guilty that the State didn't pay to another State Enterprise for electricity? Chubais should understand the situation aned the result of his actions!!!!

    And all those actions happened FOR A FEW YEARS. One scandal followed another one. Here central Russian TV showed that a military unit was cut off from electricity, the government ordered to switch on the electricity and to not do such actions in future and some time later the situation repeated.

    So a lot of Russian people HATE Chubais for the catastrophic results of the privatisation and for his policy when he was the Main Chief of Russian Energetic System. Chubais is the man who promised good life for everyone but cheated the people (HE decided HOW to do the privatisation), Chubais is the man who is guilty in the fact that a lot of people (especially in Far East) stayed without heating in cold winter conditions in buildings that have no other types of heating!!!

    Many people suppose that Chubais is a man who didn't think about Russia, trhe man who is a puppet of foreign forces who caused a lot of damage to Russia.

    So a lot of people have a lot of reasons to try to revenge to Chubais.

    A group of officers (former???) of secret services under the comand of Col. Kvachkov decided to kill Chubais. They were not related to official Russian rules, they really were connected to one of Russian extremist national group.

    But neither Gen Ivashov nor the Assosiation of veterans of secret services nor Russian rules were related to that.

    I want to say that Russian TV every day speaks fresh news about the case of Litvinenko's murder.

    Putin promised to order to FSB to help to British police if it would ask about it.

    But the "main British newspaper" is not simple truth for the Russians especially after all that trash that had been printed in Western mass media.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave T
    replied
    A standing ovation for Mr Putin? Ok, as has been posted here, a strong leader who has brought economic stability. How well are Russians informed about the daily disclosures here in the UK? If they do know, but are as dismissive and lacking in concern and suspicion about possible involvement of their Government and Security Services as Alex and Andrey, then I am amazed and disturbed. See articles from one UK main newspaper:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...npoison102.xml
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../npoison02.xml
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../npoison01.xml

    Nothing proven yet of course, but evidence is mounting and pointing towards those responsible coming from Moscow. If "Dignity and Honour" or any of the other named groups are involved, the big question is whether there was official knowledge and sanction for the action. Keep watching this space!

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    Originally posted by pp(est) View Post
    Both Stalin and Hitler enjoyed huge popularity too. Still both were murderers. So, what's your point?
    In Stalin's USSR and Hitler's Germany to not be an admire of Stalin or Hitler equaled to make a suicide.

    In modern Russia people have not got reasons to be afraid of showing their senses about their leader.

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by pp(est) View Post
    Both Stalin and Hitler enjoyed huge popularity too. Still both were murderers. So, what's your point?
    Both Hitler and Stalin obtained all means of Propaganda (i.e. mass-media)
    Unlike them Putin can't affect on a wide range of mass-media including foreign radio-stations and TV channels here as well as on the Internet resources...
    Nothing similar with politics of that two historical figures you named here, even if somebody would like to make some parallels....

    Leave a comment:


  • pp(est)
    replied
    Both Stalin and Hitler enjoyed huge popularity too. Still both were murderers. So, what's your point?

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    A few days ago there was a show of Rusian KVN (don't mix with KGB). KVN is a festival of Students Humour Theaters.

    Suddenly Alexander Maslyuakov, the famous chief of the festival, went to the public. He wentr together with.... Vladimir Putin. Putin came to be a spectator of the show. The public (mainly, students youth) give to Putin a large standing ovation.

    Here how the Russians regard to Putin.
    Last edited by Andrey; 02 Dec 06, 01:12.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave T
    replied
    I understand Litvinenko could have left traces of the substance at any location he visited after ingesting it - through sweat or other bodily excretions. 12 locations are known to have such traces at present. There are also traces in 4 BA planes that flew to and from Moscow - including those flights carrying Lugovoi etc.
    Watching the Gaider case with interest. Story was slow to make the main news in UK. Symptons perhaps indicating radiation involvement?
    PP (est) may be correct. We may have to wait for Security Service Operative to defect or be bought by an exiled oligarch to get the story.
    Let's see what tomorrow's revelation is?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim H. Moreno
    replied
    Whoa. This has suddenly exploded all over the news here in the States, especially since this latest:

    Radiation found at 12 sites linked to spy probe

    Here's a related piece about POLONIUM FOR SALE.

    Leave a comment:


  • Slim Fan
    replied
    Originally posted by amvas View Post
    One of the newest versions is that Litvinenko has ampoule of Polonium with him while travvelling across London.
    It's very hard to find so many traces of Polonium, where Litvinenko was, if poison was only inside him.
    Alex
    According to the head of the British Health Protection Agency, trace quantities of Polonium 210 (and it seems that at this stage we are only talking about trace quantities) could have been exuded in Litvinenko's perspiration.

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    One of the newest versions is that Litvinenko has ampoule of Polonium with him while travvelling across London.
    It's very hard to find so many traces of Polonium, where Litvinenko was, if poison was only inside him.
    Exists version that he was involved in contraband operations with this radioactive element.

    If we remember that Chechen terrorists loudly declared once them to obtain small nuke bomb (and Litvinenko was among friends of terrorist Zakaev) this version also has chances to be true (I'm not discussing probability, just increasing the amount of versions)
    (Polonium can be a part of such bomb)

    In any cases all traces leads to Berezovsky...
    In what kind? We'll see...
    To my mind, he plays a role of scenario designer in this show....

    regards,
    Alex
    Last edited by amvas; 30 Nov 06, 07:56.

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by pp(est) View Post
    Dave, Litvinenko has been known to visit Berezovskis office regularly - so no surprise that there were traces there just like there was in other places he was known to have been.

    Guardian reports that traces of the stuff was found in BA aircraft flying between London and Moscow. Amvas - apparently people could board planes with this stuff without it triggering any alarms. Based on this info I am pretty confident, that the assassin whomever hired him has fled to Moscow and will never be found. Maybe some future defector will tell us what really happened.
    As the traces of Polonium were found in Berezovsky's office with the same probability (or even larger) we can claim Berezovsky personally to poison his agent
    Also we can assume governments of each country that 3 poisoned planes(!) had visited for killing Litvinenko

    Now Gaidar too has apparently been hospitalised. Is this some grand purge we're witnessing?
    Rather dark story, but still no evidences he was poisoned by somebody, but not ate some bad food without malicious intents
    Last edited by amvas; 29 Nov 06, 23:10.

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  • pp(est)
    replied
    Dave, Litvinenko has been known to visit Berezovskis office regularly - so no surprise that there were traces there just like there was in other places he was known to have been.

    Guardian reports that traces of the stuff was found in BA aircraft flying between London and Moscow. Amvas - apparently people could board planes with this stuff without it triggering any alarms. Based on this info I am pretty confident, that the assassin whomever hired him has fled to Moscow and will never be found. Maybe some future defector will tell us what really happened.

    Now Gaidar too has apparently been hospitalised. Is this some grand purge we're witnessing?

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by pp(est) View Post
    amvas, what important international meetings are you talking about? I know no exceedingly important meetings going on. If you think the Russian negotiations with EU or the WTO accession are these important meetings then the world is by far more interested in Russian trade regulation - more particularly the artificial delays at borders, the import boycott for Polish meat, the fish debacle, the embargo of Georgia, the threatened boycott of all EU foodstuffs. EU leaders are way more worried about the gas pipeline situation last year in Ukraine than they are about Russia killing off its journalists and spies, for all most EU leaders care Putin can arrange a public beheading in the Red Square of all the remaining Russian opposition politicians and all what would happen in Europe would be a few angry editorials .
    Any meeting of such a scale is an important event.

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave T View Post
    Latest reports are of traces of polonium 210 at one of Berezovsky's offices in London....
    Don't say "I told you so" just yet though Alex
    Yes, I heard about this... THis was predictable...
    Now two variants can occur:

    i) Finding out it was Berezovsky, who had ordered murder of his puppet

    ii) Loud declarations of Berezovsky, that the poisoning was directed against him and Litvinenko only "drunk that coffee, which had been prepared for Berezovsky himself"...

    Life is becoming more and more interesting....

    Leave a comment:

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