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(OT) Who's Killing Russia's News Reporters?

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  • Dave T
    replied
    Originally posted by amvas View Post
    One new version appeared recently.
    People, who which poisoned Litvinenko and tried to poison Gajdar can be connected with Yukos and its former heads.
    If to remember in the dossier of Yukos we cold see poisoning of some figures by wapors of mercury this version has some chances for further development....
    Hmm. So says the Russian Chief prosecutor. He has named a Mr Nevzlin of Yukos - now in Israel. Maybe Khodorkovsky will be implicated in the conspiracy too despite his alibi
    I think the NSY dorks may have other views...
    Anti Russian leader columns have appeared in serious UK press so a picture is painted to the readers almost of a bandit dictatorship bullying its neighbours and making mischief further afield. Is this reported in Russia and if so, how do the Russian people react? Are British visitors not particularly welcome at present?

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  • amvas
    replied
    One new version appeared recently.
    People, who which poisoned Litvinenko and tried to poison Gajdar can be connected with Yukos and its former heads.
    If to remember in the dossier of Yukos we cold see poisoning of some figures by wapors of mercury this version has some chances for further development....

    Leave a comment:


  • joea
    replied
    Veerrry interesting guys.

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  • stalin
    replied
    if only sherlock holmes and dr.watson were now, like... around - they would've "unraveled" this case easely, 'cause those dorks from scotland yard only know how to waste taxpayers' money on expensive tests and voyages to russia.
    wasn't it clear right away - scaramello is the "poisoner".

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by stalin View Post
    now that scaramello is detained by the police, western mass-media and scotland yard must be looking quite stupid for their allegations against russia and her fsb.
    Arrest of Scaramello still is not connected with Litvinenko's death. But I can't exclude any variants....
    In any case contacts of Litvinenko with people at least close to criminal (if not criminals themselves) must feed brains of everybody...

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  • stalin
    replied
    now that scaramello is detained by the police, western mass-media and scotland yard must be looking quite stupid for their allegations against russia and her fsb.









    _

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  • Andrey
    replied
    Today "Komsomolskaia Pravda" wrote an interview with Sergei Stepashin, a well-known politician.

    One of the questions was about Litvinenko case.

    Stepashin said that Litvinenko was Berezovsky's puppet, he was a traitor. The correspondent asked to explain what Stepashin meant.

    Stepashin said the following. In 1995 he was the Chief of FSK (in 1995 FSB was called FSK). In that time Vlad Listiev, a very famous and popular Russian TV-reporter, was killed. Eltsin ordered to FSK to investigate the murder. FSK in vestigated it and found that Berezovsky was related to the murder. FSK was ready to arrest Berezovsky but Berezovsky was informed by somebody about the investigation. So Berezovsky assumed some measures and his arrest was canceled. Stepashin said that the person who had given to Berezovsky the secret information was Litvinenko.

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  • Andrey
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave T View Post
    On topic. Andrey, "Spies" used by me loosely. More apt would have been term "spooks" to denote all members of the "intelligence community" past and present ie those in counter-intelligence - FSB? - as well as those who spy abroad. I believe the FBI are more Police than Security Service but I don't know for sure.
    Russian FSB is more close to US FBI. Russian FSB operates mainly in the territory of Russia. Its tasks are to fight against terrorists, foreign spies, powerful organized criminal groups and so on.

    Russia has SVR (Sluzhba Vneshnei Razvedki) "Outer Intelligence Service". It is close to US CIA. The most of the Russian "spies" serve in SVR.

    Litvinenko and the others served in FSB and not in SVR.

    The method must have been in the plan - to be tracked / to make it a long and nasty end / to discourage others/ to provoke anti Russian Government feeling?
    The best way for Russian rules to intimidate "the political refugees" was to kill Berezovsky. And it was not necessary to use 10,000,000$ polonium for this.

    I still think we will find who took the spoons, but who for?
    The meaning of the anekdote is not who stole spoons.

    The meaning is that a few honest persons were blamed in a bad deed. It occurred later that they had not been guilty but their good names had been defiled before the spoons were found.

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  • Dave T
    replied
    Originally posted by Rambow View Post
    Remembered old joke:

    'A spy can't become former spy. He can become dead spy.'

    on topic?
    On topic. Andrey, "Spies" used by me loosely. More apt would have been term "spooks" to denote all members of the "intelligence community" past and present ie those in counter-intelligence - FSB? - as well as those who spy abroad. I believe the FBI are more Police than Security Service but I don't know for sure.
    I don't know how much the polonium cost Alex, but I agree it could have been done by cheaper means. A local with a knife would have done it for a fix of crack or heroin. The method must have been in the plan - to be tracked / to make it a long and nasty end / to discourage others/ to provoke anti Russian Government feeling? I still think we will find who took the spoons, but who for? As the Police will say, they are keeping an open mind about all possibilities - including accident / martyrship of Litvenenko, but I don't think that is too likely really, do you?
    I agree there are lots of unanswered questions. Keep monitoring!

    Leave a comment:


  • Rambow
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrey View Post
    1 FORMER spies. It is not the same.
    Remembered old joke:

    'A spy can't become former spy. He can become dead spy.'

    on topic?

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Well... I made a pause with interest observing the situation around that "Polonium hysteria"

    Still too many questions remains....
    First of all who needed to kill (if so) such a small figure as Litvinenko.
    Sorry, I can't accept version of FSB.
    FSB was not interested in doing this at least by these reasons.
    i) As I have already said Litvinanko was too small figure
    ii) Even if some operation for murder was approved by FSB they will never start from Litvinenko. there are plenty of other candidates living only in GB to start with
    iii) Any Intelligence would use radioactive material (either Polonium, or other one) only if it wanted to leave as many traces, as it could.
    Sorry, but I couldn't notice suicidal trends in FSB
    iv) If Intelligence would like to use assasins to kill somebody, be sure it would be person, who had never been known as a man connected with it.
    Sorry that many of westerners misses this obvious thing.
    Murder is very serious operation and if such one is prepared be sure it's prepared not by idiots.
    v) As I have heard Litvinenko caught a portion of Polonium which costs $10,000,000... What do you think about efficiency of such a "golden" way of murder? If it was I to prepare some murder having such a sum I would prefer to buy a good rifle with optic sign, or a truck filled with explosives for guaranteed effect (Don't treat me as potential killer, it's only guess )
    And I would save much money for myself.
    Usage of such an exotic way tells that
    1) Enough rich people are staying behind this case.
    2) They tried to make as much traces leading to Russia, as they can.
    More traces they could make only if assassin had walked along the Baker-street with a big slogan "I'm from Russia".

    So, I can summarise all said above.
    Only narrow-minded person can be sure Litvinenko was kiled by FSB.
    I can't exclude both death of Litvinenko was ordered by Russian (including those, who lives in GB) and nobody to kill him.
    Still nobody rejected version that Litvinenko could be poisoned due to unsafe operations with Polonium container (either himself, or his mates)...

    So, monitoring of situation is in progress....
    Regards,
    Alex

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave T View Post
    Too many spies confuse the story!
    1 FORMER spies. It is not the same.

    2 I don't know what you mean spy.

    In Russian "spy" equals to "shpion", it means "an agent of foreign hostile intelligence service". Friendly or own "spies" are called "razvedchik".

    But in any case it is about the people who work in a foreign coutry to search for secret information.

    Litvinenko NEVER was a "razvedchik" and I think it is right about all others who are mentioned in this case.

    They worked in FSB but they were equal to US FBI agents, as I understand.

    Little of the affair in UK news lately due to many other big stories but I think it will return with a vengeance yet.
    It is what the organizers of all this provocation want.

    The investigation will continue but the ordinary public will lose interest to it. They will remember only one in their minds: "Evil Putin's regime killed a dissident in London. Oh, those evil Russians!"

    If a few weeks later the Police define that it was Berezovsky who had done all this the mass media will write a few rows about it...

    There is a Russian anecdote:

    "Ater a party.

    1: Hey, after you left us yesterday we found that a few silver spoons were stolen. Give them back!

    2: We didn't take your spoons!

    1: You went away and they were stolen. Those were you who stole them!

    2: It is wrong, we didn't take your spoons.

    A week later.

    2: Hi, how are you?

    1: Oh, hi!

    2: Is there anything new about the spoons?

    1: Yes. The spoons were found. But the feeling of resentment (after-pains?) about you stayed."
    Last edited by Andrey; 20 Dec 06, 18:26.

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  • Dave T
    replied
    Originally posted by stalin View Post
    1) well, tell me when russia wasn't that way - since the days of old she's unstable as she'll always be. so unlucky you then, poor estonians, doomed to ever exist near a "weak-strong" neighbouring country.
    let me express my condolences on this.

    2) democracy-schlemocracy you say?
    down with it!
    whether the democracy is a must for every state?!
    we better build some more appropriate (for russia) model of society.
    anyways, out here - it's not the europe, you know...
    Vasilevskii has spoken. It's not just the next-door neighbours who need worry!
    But to the thread: Scotland Yard Detectives have ended their stay in Russia and will report to the prosecuting authority of England - the CPS. It will be interesting to see in due course whether there is evidence to apply for extradition of anyone. Did one or more of the 3 visiting Russians bungle, or were they framed? Since the Russian Chief Prosecutor has already ruled extradition out, if there is evidence, do we think ther will be a trial in Russia?
    The latest ex-spy to come out of the woodwork suggests a new motive for killing Litvinenko - he had prepared a dossier on a Russian busiessman and Kremlin insider for a Western company considering doing business with this person. It is said that the contents were enough to stop a big deal being made, and had potential for major embarrassment and even blackmail opportunities. Too many spies confuse the story!
    More polonium contaminated people have been found in London.
    Little of the affair in UK news lately due to many other big stories but I think it will return with a vengeance yet.

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  • stalin
    replied
    Originally posted by pp(est) View Post
    Russia is our main threat, because it is weak and therefore unpredictable. Perhaps you think weak or strong in military terms. I think weak and strong in terms of the fibre of society, economy and political stability...
    ...With Putin so openly autocratic it is tough for even his best apologists to claim that Russia as it is now is somehow moving toward democracy...

    1) well, tell me when russia wasn't that way - since the days of old she's unstable as she'll always be. so unlucky you then, poor estonians, doomed to ever exist near a "weak-strong" neighbouring country.
    let me express my condolences on this.

    2) democracy-schlemocracy you say?
    down with it!
    whether the democracy is a must for every state?!
    we better build some more appropriate (for russia) model of society.
    anyways, out here - it's not the europe, you know...

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave T View Post
    And Russians haven't been enlisting Americans and |British since the 90s?!
    I presume the Security Services of all Nations are always seeking contacts - in friendly nations as well as potential aggressor countries.
    The device disguised as a stone in a Moscow park was allegedly placed by British Agents to contact ron-governmental organisations in Russia, that are, by Western standards, repressed by the Government. Whether it is Western paranoia about a strong Russia, or concern about a weakening in democratic processes and big business / Government corruption in Russia, I would have thought it prudent to maintain intelligence networks despite co-operation in the "War against Terror".
    I don't believe it would be considered OK for UK if the Britishes knew that US secret services tried to enlist 50 British officials who had access to British secret information and openly spied on British Embassy in Washington.

    Leave a comment:

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