Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

(OT) Who's Killing Russia's News Reporters?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by Dave T View Post
    Fascinating thread! Perhaps we should stick to discussing WW2?
    However, a few thoughts.
    I presume that whoever poisoned Litvinenko - assuming he didn't do it himself to gain sympathy or frame another - knew the effects that would ocvcur and didn't intend instant death. Like Yushenko perhaps, or the case of the 3 Rumanian Journalists who took 3 months to die after their desks were contaminated with plutonium dust left by the Securitate allegedly. So the lack of a kill does not necesdsarily eliminate FSB action.
    Why FSB? Why not Mossad, CIA, MI5, mafia, his wife, lover of his wife and so on?

    There are no reasons for Russia to kill him RIGHT NOW.

    IF FSB have killed Berezovsky or Zakaev I would not be sorry for him. One more rascal would died. But Litvinenko??? He was a ZERO, a large political ZERO.

    Maybe the suggestion of Berezovsky's agents has merit, though I don't understand the motive.
    Motive? Aren't you hearing the anti-Russian scream of your mass media?

    And yersterday Russian TV news said that

    1. a few days later the summit Russia-EU in Helsinki will be opened

    2. a few days ago Russian and British lawyers had a large progress in the agreement about the extradition rules between our countries.

    Who are afraid to be extradited? Berezovsky and Zakaev (representetive of the Chechen bandits in the West). They are "friends" of Litvinenko. Berezovsky not once was caught in his talkings about sacrificing some of his friends to blame FSB in it. What do you want to get more?

    Presumably the Russians Litvinenko breakfasted with are top of the suspect list. It is reported that one is ex KGB, now back in Moscow and willing to make a statement.
    What do you mean ex-KGB? KGB was closed in 1991.

    Perhaps the out of touch traitor Gordievsky is in the know this time? Interesting how language and opinion changes with different perspectives. The British saying is one man's meat is another man's poison(oops). So one man's conscience driven, courageous and knowledgeable defector is another man's criminal traitorous lunatic. Andrey did praise those who serve their countries in this area of work... Likewise the courageous freedom fighters called Taliban during the Soviet foray into Afganistan are now terrorists as they attack British Army in Helmand.
    I don't know about Gordievsky.

    But Litvinenko is a corrupt FSB official who betrayed his motherland and his duty. He was not serving to the Communists, he was serving in FSB of democratic Russia when he became a traitor.

    I'm with with pp(est) in that a bus flattening Litvinenko would not have caused suspicions about Russian involvement in the wat that the use of an exotic poison following a meeting with 2 Russians - one a former Security Officer have.
    Very good logic - two Russians met, one of them was a former FSB officer so it means the secnd one was an officer of FSB....

    I don't understand why Alex is so dismissive of Western European fear of Russian leadership exploiting West dependance on energy resources. Hasn't it already happened once? Why wouldn't a strong leader use the cards he has been dealt to favour his country?
    Why aren't the West is worring about the Arabian oil? As I know they raised oil prices in the 70s very significantly.

    To buy oil from the Arabs is OK and is not dangerous, to buy Russian gas is dangerous. Is it OK?

    I hope and expect that investigations will throw sufficient light on what has happened in this case, that, if there is insufficient evidence to prosecute, there will still be enough information for UK Government to remonstrate with any Governments or Agencies involved.
    Perhaps there are many Russian exiles in London and UK in general - not all football club owners who may be on hit-lists and vulnerable if such action is not taken.
    Those criminals have been speaking scorn of their Motherland for many years and are still alive. But now FSB decided for some reasons decided to check that wrong thing. And FSB decided to do it right now, during important negotiations with European Union. Isn't it a nonsense????

    Comment


    • #47
      Well, let's try not to close the thread, especially since I started it. What about this story that fits into the current conversation:

      Friend: Poisoned Ex-Russian Spy on Life Support
      Stay Alert, Stay Alive!

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Jim H. Moreno View Post
        Well, let's try not to close the thread, especially since I started it. What about this story that fits into the current conversation:

        Friend: Poisoned Ex-Russian Spy on Life Support
        I have read it and I haven't found obvious mistakes.

        But he didn't say any word who is Berezovsky except he is a Russian in exile.

        He didn't say that it is considered in Russia that Litvinenko lied about order to kill Berezovsky.

        And I have recognized that the guy who was earlier called "an ex-KGB officer" in this thread was Berezovsky's bodyguard!!!! So before the poisonong Litvinenko met to a Berezovsky's bodyguard and another Russian.
        Last edited by Andrey; 23 Nov 06, 09:53.

        Comment


        • #49
          My responses are in bold type
          :
          Originally posted by Andrey View Post
          Why FSB? Why not Mossad, CIA, MI5, mafia, his wife, lover of his wife and so on?

          Absence of any motive at present.
          There are no reasons for Russia to kill him RIGHT NOW.

          If he had potential to implicate FSB in killing of Politkovskaya.

          IF FSB have killed Berezovsky or Zakaev I would not be sorry for him. One more rascal would died. But Litvinenko??? He was a ZERO, a large political ZERO.

          You would accept security service hits on exiles in the UK if they were worthy targets, but not low level former employees.

          Motive? Aren't you hearing the anti-Russian scream of your mass media?

          I doubt it exists to the extent you think.

          And yersterday Russian TV news said that

          1. a few days later the summit Russia-EU in Helsinki will be opened

          2. a few days ago Russian and British lawyers had a large progress in the agreement about the extradition rules between our countries.

          Who are afraid to be extradited? Berezovsky and Zakaev (representetive of the Chechen bandits in the West). They are "friends" of Litvinenko. Berezovsky not once was caught in his talkings about sacrificing some of his friends to blame FSB in it. What do you want to get more?

          I haven't seen report of B talking about expending a friend to frame FSB. I would have thought that would be a prominent piece of current Western reporting if it was verified.

          What do you mean ex-KGB? KGB was closed in 1991.

          And was replaced by FSB and SVR - and other acronyms maybe. I presume Litvinenko and Lugovoi - the visitor from Moscow - served in KGB and successor Agencies.


          I don't know about Gordievsky.

          Maybe his story is not well reported in Russia, but his wwas a massive defection.
          But Litvinenko is a corrupt FSB official who betrayed his motherland and his duty. He was not serving to the Communists, he was serving in FSB of democratic Russia when he became a traitor.

          Traitor because of conscience or corruption?



          Very good logic - two Russians met, one of them was a former FSB officer so it means the secnd one was an officer of FSB....

          See the Fox news article. Lugovoi is ex-security service.


          Why aren't the West is worring about the Arabian oil? As I know they raised oil prices in the 70s very significantly.

          It is. They did. That's why the West worries. Some argue that oil was a major factor in Iraq invasion.

          To buy oil from the Arabs is OK and is not dangerous, to buy Russian gas is dangerous. Is it OK?

          IMHO both are potentially dangerous. In today's world, reliance on other states for energy needs makes you vulnerable.

          Those criminals have been speaking scorn of their Motherland for many years and are still alive. But now FSB decided for some reasons decided to check that wrong thing. And FSB decided to do it right now, during important negotiations with European Union. Isn't it a nonsense????
          I take this point. Unless the perpetrator is identified, we will not know the why, the why now, and maybe even the how.
          "Sheer nonsense" is the official resonse of Russian Authorities. That may be correct but given the records of security services of all nations, who knows? They would say that wouldn't they?
          A decendant of Tolstoy wrote a letter to the Daily Telegraph today drawing attention to the case of Nikolai Khokov in 1950s. It is said that Krushev ordered him to kill an emigre in West Germany. His conscience made him publicly confess the plot. He fell ill 3 years later and was treated in a US Military Hospital with horrible symptoms which turned out to be as a result of radioactive thallium poisoning. Sounds familiar?
          There will be lots of twists and turns in this story no doubt. It beats James Bond in my view
          .

          Comment


          • #50
            " It beats James Bond in my view."

            Reality always beats fiction in my view.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Dave T View Post
              [B]Originally Posted by Andrey
              Why FSB? Why not Mossad, CIA, MI5, mafia, his wife, lover of his wife and so on?

              Absence of any motive at present.
              There are no reasons for Russia to kill him RIGHT NOW.

              If he had potential to implicate FSB in killing of Politkovskaya.
              It was possible to kill him insensibly.

              You would accept security service hits on exiles in the UK if they were worthy targets, but not low level former employees.
              I would not sorry if FSB killed the rascal like Litvinenko. But it is fantasy to think they did it.

              Motive? Aren't you hearing the anti-Russian scream of your mass media?

              I doubt it exists to the extent you think.
              So what are we speaking about right now?

              What do you mean ex-KGB? KGB was closed in 1991.

              And was replaced by FSB and SVR - and other acronyms maybe. I presume Litvinenko and Lugovoi - the visitor from Moscow - served in KGB and successor Agencies.
              Fox News wrote Lugovoy was Berezovsky's bodyguard!

              I don't know about Gordievsky.

              Maybe his story is not well reported in Russia, but his wwas a massive defection.
              I know who Gordievsky is but I don't know what he did after he run away in the West and what is his position.

              But Litvinenko is a corrupt FSB official who betrayed his motherland and his duty. He was not serving to the Communists, he was serving in FSB of democratic Russia when he became a traitor.

              Traitor because of conscience or corruption?
              Consience? He is a corrupt Security Service officer who sold his honor for Berezovsky's money and who caused damage to his country by his lie.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Andrey View Post
                I have read it and I haven't found obvious mistakes.

                But he didn't say any word who is Berezovsky except he is a Russian in exile.

                He didn't say that it is considered in Russia that Litvinenko lied about order to kill Berezovsky.

                And I have recognized that the guy who was earlier called "an ex-KGB officer" in this thread was Berezovsky's bodyguard!!!! So before the poisonong Litvinenko met to a Berezovsky's bodyguard and another Russian.
                My own version is that Berezovsky, which is No.1 in wish list for deportation to Russia wants to show Russian secret services as an evil forces ready to kill everybody (the same scenario likes to use Chechen terrorists, whose best friend Berezovsky is). So, this easy show with poisoning was played.
                Litvinenko has absolute no value now for anybody, but his enough famous figure for journalists to cause reaction in mass-media to the state of his health...

                So, the figure, who can get preferences from this poisoning is rather obvious - Berezovsky
                If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Andrey View Post
                  It looks like you don't know history.

                  The Nazies did the same when they invaded to Poland in 1939. They dressed a few SS-men in Polish military uniform and those SS-men attacked GERMAN radio-station in Gleivits to show to the World that the Poles did it.

                  Quite right. Stalin did this with the Mainila shots to get an excuse to attack Finland. But the point is, Hitler and Stalin did those things to get an excuse to attack and claim legitimacy under international law. You are claiming these guys do this to get sympathy, i.e. a few sorry looks and perhaps a sympathy letter or two. This is just crazy.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by pp(est) View Post
                    Quite right. Stalin did this with the Mainila shots to get an excuse to attack Finland. But the point is, Hitler and Stalin did those things to get an excuse to attack and claim legitimacy under international law. You are claiming these guys do this to get sympathy, i.e. a few sorry looks and perhaps a sympathy letter or two. This is just crazy.
                    Prior to Manijla there were plenty of provocations from Finnish side.
                    Read reports of Soviet border guards about them
                    So, Manijla was an excuse, but it was not something too outstanding for Soviet-Finnish frontier
                    If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Yesterday, Sergei Yastrzhembsky, the press-secretary of President of Russia declared: "We see a well made campaign or plan of consecutive discredit of Russia and its leader"

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by amvas View Post
                        Prior to Manijla there were plenty of provocations from Finnish side.
                        Read reports of Soviet border guards about them
                        So, Manijla was an excuse, but it was not something too outstanding for Soviet-Finnish frontier
                        you made me spill my coffee again!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by pp(est) View Post
                          you made me spill my coffee again!
                          I read some reports of our frontier guards for the year 1939...
                          Very interesting reading

                          P.S. Try to drink Coca-Cola
                          P.P.S. I'm not conected with Coca-cola trademark....
                          If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            News today is that a possible 'official' investigation by a British agency could start soon.

                            Emergency council convenes to discuss former Russian spy's death
                            Stay Alert, Stay Alive!

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Jim H. Moreno View Post
                              News today is that a possible 'official' investigation by a British agency could start soon.

                              Emergency council convenes to discuss former Russian spy's death
                              It's really interesting to know, who poisoned that bastard with such an exotic way....
                              If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                It was the dastardly Finns again. Just like in 1939.

                                More seriously, the use of such sophisticated method makes me incline even more to the position that this was a work of some state agency. It does serve a powerful message to all would-be defectors as well as all who dare investigate Russsian matters too much.
                                Last edited by pp(est); 25 Nov 06, 13:45.

                                Comment

                                Latest Topics

                                Collapse

                                • G David Bock
                                  What's Tinier Than a Willys Jeep
                                  by G David Bock
                                  What's Tinier Than a Willys Jeep But Just as "Ooh Rah?" The Mighty Mite

                                  ...........
                                  What is this, a Jeep for ants? No, it...
                                  Today, 14:19
                                • Massena
                                  Trump is Wrong Again-Dangerously So
                                  by Massena
                                  Trump is living in Dreamland...

                                  https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/polit...ntv/index.html

                                  The commissioner of the US Food and Drug...
                                  Today, 12:55
                                • lakechampainer
                                  When you vote, which of the following themes generally help decide your vote?
                                  by lakechampainer
                                  When you vote, which of the following themes help you decide whom to vote for?
                                  I generally vote for members of my party.
                                  12.50%
                                  1
                                  I generally vote for the more conservative candidate.
                                  25.00%
                                  2
                                  I generally vote for the more centrist candidate.
                                  25.00%
                                  2
                                  I generally vote for the more liberal candidate.
                                  0%
                                  0
                                  I generally vote for the incumbent.
                                  0%
                                  0
                                  I generally vote for the non-incumbent.
                                  0%
                                  0
                                  I like to send "message votes".-i.e. vote rep when the dem will win
                                  12.50%
                                  1
                                  I sometimes vote based on race.
                                  0%
                                  0
                                  I sometime vote based on last names.
                                  0%
                                  0
                                  I generally will force myself to vote for major party candidates.
                                  12.50%
                                  1
                                  I generally take military service into account.
                                  25.00%
                                  2
                                  I generally take sex into account.
                                  0%
                                  0
                                  I generally don't vote for candidates from political families.
                                  50.00%
                                  4
                                  I will sometimes vote differently in a primary than a general election (more liberal or conservative, etc.)
                                  12.50%
                                  1
                                  I often vote based upon recommendations of friends and family.
                                  0%
                                  0
                                  I always try to vote, including in local elections.
                                  37.50%
                                  3
                                  I will vote strictly on what I perceive as my own self-interest.
                                  0%
                                  0
                                  I will vote based on what I think is best for my children and grandchildren.
                                  37.50%
                                  3
                                  Today, 09:35
                                Working...
                                X