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(OT) Who's Killing Russia's News Reporters?

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  • Barbarossa
    replied
    Originally posted by amvas View Post
    Been in KGB, or FSB doesn't mean to be a bad guy...
    It's the same if we call person from UK MI-6, or American CIA initially to be "bad"...

    So, lets stay in the subject and not to put labels to the staff of Intelligence whatever country they belong to...
    Well, the CIA is "bad", you'll have to take my word for it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    Originally posted by pawelj View Post
    He was in the KGB, of course he was a bad guy. That does not mean what he says is always a lie.
    Hmmm... As I know Litvinenko never served in KGB. There are a few Secret Services in Russia. To the point, my roommate served in "Vympel" which like "Alfa" was a special group of KGB (later - FSB). It was like US "Delta" group. Do you really think a former member of "Vympel" (a member of KGB) could call anyone a bad guy ("mraz'", I don't know the English equivalent, Amvas, can you help?) only if that guy served in a Russian security service???

    I am ABSOLUTELY sure he meant Litvinenko is mraz (very bad guy) as a person. It is very funny to explain it for you. No one Russian will call another one mraz only on the basis of the structure where those second guy work or serve...

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by pawelj View Post
    He was in the KGB, of course he was a bad guy. That does not mean what he says is always a lie.
    Been in KGB, or FSB doesn't mean to be a bad guy...
    It's the same if we call person from UK MI-6, or American CIA initially to be "bad"...

    So, lets stay in the subject and not to put labels to the staff of Intelligence whatever country they belong to...

    Leave a comment:


  • pawelj
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrey View Post
    I am in Salekhard (a town in the Polar Circle) now. I live in a hotel in one room with a man who is a former member of Soviet/Russian Group "Vympel" ("Banner"). It is a very famous group (like "Alfa"), for example, it took part in Beslan Operation in 2002.

    He said me that he knew Litvinenko. If to use a polite version of his words about Litvinenko, Litvinenko was a very bad guy.... The same about Berezovskii...
    He was in the KGB, of course he was a bad guy. That does not mean what he says is always a lie.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    I am in Salekhard (a town in the Polar Circle) now. I live in a hotel in one room with a man who is a former member of Soviet/Russian Group "Vympel" ("Banner"). It is a very famous group (like "Alfa"), for example, it took part in Beslan Operation in 2002.

    He said me that he knew Litvinenko. If to use a polite version of his words about Litvinenko, Litvinenko was a very bad guy.... The same about Berezovskii...

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    I found this article from "The Guardian" in www.inosmi.ru

    It has some info connected to Litvinenko's case

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/st...057913,00.html

    This fugitive billionaire has exposed his violent agenda


    Berezovsky is the embodiment of 'robber capitalism', and Britain should no longer harbour him after this outrage

    Dmitry Peskov
    Monday April 16, 2007
    The Guardian


    There can now be no doubt about the motivations of those behind the long and sustained campaign to blacken Russia's image and destabilise the Russian government from afar over the last few years. In the clearest possible terms, Boris Berezovsky told the world last week that he wants to foment a violent revolution in Russia against a democratically elected president. "I am calling for revolution and revolution is always violent," he says, confirming ominously that "there are practical steps" which he is taking.

    We now expect the British authorities to rethink their decision to harbour a fugitive billionaire who is using the protections afforded by the British state to call for regime change in a sovereign state and member of the G8 group of leading democratic economies.
    The Foreign Office has already condemned Berezovsky's calls for violent struggle. It now needs to match words with action in accordance with the law. Berezovsky is wanted in connection with charges of misappropriation of funds and fraud in his home country. The latest charges lodged with the Russian prosecutor's office link him directly to the embezzlement of 214m roubles (£4.2m) from the national flagship air carrier Aeroflot.

    Now that his motives have been laid bare, it is time also to reassess the carefully executed and well-funded misinformation campaign - the "practical steps" as he terms them - that he has been orchestrating from London.

    The first step, of course, has been to undermine the legitimacy of the Russian government. Berezovsky claims that Russia is in the grip of authoritarian dictatorship. In fact, Vladimir Putin has won two democratically held elections and, according to the latest opinion polls, enjoys an approval rating of over 70%. He has made explicitly clear that he will be leaving office after the conclusion of his second term, as required by the constitution.

    Berezovsky also claims that "the media in Russia remain under total Kremlin control"; another accusation that is ludicrously far from the truth. There are approximately 3,200 TV and radio broadcasting companies in Russia, of which about 10% are state-owned. Over 46,000 publications are registered in the country, well over 20,000 more than existed in 2000. With a burgeoning media, catalysed by 25 million internet users accessing whatever content they wish, it is ludicrous to claim total government control.

    The campaign against the president is also personal and slanderous. Berezovsky has made outrageous slurs alleging the president's involvement in Alexander Litvinenko's death, without a shred of evidence. He claims that Russia's security services were behind the series of apartment bombings in 1999 that killed nearly 300 people, when Putin was prime minister. Again, he does not have anything to back up his claims. In his interview last week, Berezovsky pretty much admitted this, saying that he had dedicated much of the last six years to "trying to destroy the positive image of Putin".

    So why does it matter? Who cares about the fantastical musings of a man in self-imposed exile, speaking from the luxury of his London home?

    The fact is Boris Berezovsky and his associates have been putting thousands of pounds into creating and financing foundations, thinktanks and campaign groups tasked with illegally undermining the Russian government and its president. I believe that the media, and those who consume its content, have a right to know both who is behind the misinformation campaign and what narrow political agenda is being pursued. By coming out of the shadows this week, Berezovsky has done us all a great favour.

    The irony is that, for all Berezovsky's allegations, he personifies how far Russia has changed and moved on. As one of the sharpest critics of President Putin, Andrei Piontkovsky, director of the Moscow-based Independent Institute for Strategic Studies, says, "Berezovsky is the embodiment of robber capitalism".

    However, Russia no longer tolerates the unfettered personal acquisition of state assets that marked the post-Soviet phase of the country's transition. We now have an effective rule of law; we have high economic growth and stability; we have an expanding middle class and a growing civil society. I am not claiming that there are not real challenges ahead, but I would argue that few countries in the world have made such a profound transition in such a short period of time.

    So the choice for the British government, and the wider British public, is clear: should it support a fugitive, bent on violent revolution against a democracy; or should it begin to question his outlook, his motives, and his ways of operating? Action against those who incite violence has recently been a high priority for the British government. It should remain so.

    ∑ Dmitry Peskov is deputy press secretary to Vladimir Putin, the president of the Russian Federation

    ∑ Boris Berezovsky denies the charges laid against him in Russia and maintains they are politically motivated

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave T
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrey View Post
    By other words, the investigators didn't prove that it was Putin or his men who murdered Litvinenko but Western mass media continued to throw dirt to Putin and Russia!
    Some of the popular press have pointed the finger of suspicion and so some readers will be left with an impression.
    It will be for a Court of Law to determine what is proven beyond all reasonable doubt. For that to happen, if there is enough evidence to charge, suspects will have to be able to stand trial. As things stand, there seems to be no prospect of Russia permitting its citizens to stand trial in Britain. Stalemate for now. The circumstancial evidence does indicate involvement of Russians but so far as I'm aware it goes nowhere near Putin or any of the authorities.
    As per my post on another topic, I am now bowing out of these current affairs / political threads. I do find this stuff very interesteing but there are more appropriate forums I can post on and I take Alex' point on board.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave T View Post
    Word on the investigation has indeed gone relatively quiet. I have no doubt that the investigation is very much alive though, and that the Investigators are puzzling about how to proceed with the suspects when they know they cannot get extradition from the Russian Government.
    Some of the popular press left the impression that, as per the victim's words, the trail would lead to the Kremlin. The serious press I think speculate that people lower in the food chain may be responsible - perhaps rogue FSB elements. By coincidence 3 books are reviewed in the Sunday Telegraph today:
    A Russian Diary by Polikovskaya. She is lauded for her courage in speaking out but gets slammed for lacking balance over Chechnya.
    Blowing up Russia by the late Litvenenko & Felshtinsky - " a dizzying read" of plots and claims of set ups. It is said that the source material will be opened up to any Russian or international Commission that will investigate the alleged outrages described.
    The Litvenko Files by ex BCC Moscow correspondent - Martin Sixsmith. Said to be very up to date, and a racy read. The Author concludes that elements FSB GRU did it rather than any one acting on Putin's orders.
    Be patient! The story is not dead and buried yet.
    By other words, the investigators didn't prove that it was Putin or his men who murdered Litvinenko but Western mass media continued to throw dirt to Putin and Russia!

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave T
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrey View Post
    A question to Dave - How is the situation with the investigation?

    Do you remember my words that a few months later the mass media would stop to write about it and the Westerners would remember only that it probably was done by Putin? Do you remember my story about stolen spoons?
    Word on the investigation has indeed gone relatively quiet. I have no doubt that the investigation is very much alive though, and that the Investigators are puzzling about how to proceed with the suspects when they know they cannot get extradition from the Russian Government.
    Some of the popular press left the impression that, as per the victim's words, the trail would lead to the Kremlin. The serious press I think speculate that people lower in the food chain may be responsible - perhaps rogue FSB elements. By coincidence 3 books are reviewed in the Sunday Telegraph today:
    A Russian Diary by Polikovskaya. She is lauded for her courage in speaking out but gets slammed for lacking balance over Chechnya.
    Blowing up Russia by the late Litvenenko & Felshtinsky - " a dizzying read" of plots and claims of set ups. It is said that the source material will be opened up to any Russian or international Commission that will investigate the alleged outrages described.
    The Litvenko Files by ex BCC Moscow correspondent - Martin Sixsmith. Said to be very up to date, and a racy read. The Author concludes that elements FSB GRU did it rather than any one acting on Putin's orders.
    Be patient! The story is not dead and buried yet.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    A question to Dave - How is the situation with the investigation?

    Do you remember my words that a few months later the mass media would stop to write about it and the Westerners would remember only that it probably was done by Putin? Do you remember my story about stolen spoons?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jozhik
    replied
    Let us not forget that Bin Laden worked for the CIA for at least a decade. Western intelligence agencies do not have a very good track record in this regard. Some have argued that he was STILL considered an "asset" at the time of 911, but any evidence to this is, at best, circumstantial. [I.e. even if it were true, there is no way to definitively prove this specific fact.]

    I doubt that whatever the public inquiry will reveal about the Litvinenko affair will correspond very well to facts. This is how these things usually go - they get turned into a media events that are lacking both analytically and factually. In particular given Putin's recent speech. [To turn the tables a bit - what did anyone EXPECT him to say in response to U.S. moving missile defense assets to his border? Just imagine what kind of noise the U.S. were to make if Russia announced it was building a few radars and missile sites on a land leased from Mexico...]

    Factually, we know at best that the man died from exposure to a radioactive element that is very difficult to obtain. So a) either it was accidental or deliberate, and b) if it was deliberate it could have been any one of four counterparties (Berezovsky++, the Russian State, a rogue Russian or non-Russian group, Western security services). Significantly, the state actors involved have nothing to gain from this death.

    Leave a comment:


  • joea
    replied
    Ok I see then.

    Leave a comment:


  • Usievich
    replied
    The quote does not actually claim that MI6 directly ordered the klling of Daniel Pearl, rather that his killer was not exactly the nasty Islamist we're supposed to imagine. It has been suggested that Pearl was investigating links between the Pakistani ISI and al Qaida and that's the reason he was bumped off.

    The point of my post was that the mainstream media is all too eager to pin everything it can on Muslims and completely ignores other information, such as that mentioned by Musharraf. There is such a thing as a false flag, after all.

    Whatever the motives, the alleged MI6 link does rather put a different complexion on it.

    Leave a comment:


  • thejester
    replied
    Originally posted by joea View Post
    One word, WHY? Why would MI6 kill an American reporter??
    Because he found out about the 9/11 conspiracy!!111111
    Last edited by thejester; 04 Feb 07, 18:42.

    Leave a comment:


  • joea
    replied
    Originally posted by Usievich View Post
    I raised an eyebrow when I saw the mention of nuclear sales to bogus Islamic groups. It's been well documented that British Intelligence has links to "Islamic terrorists" and it's quite possible that the "Al Qaida" umbrella group is a front:

    "According to Pakistani President Musharraf......



    Daniel Pearl's murderer was an agent of MI6 (British Intelligence)



    LONDON: Pakistan President General Pervez Musharraf has disclosed that Omar Sheikh, who kidnapped and murdered American journalist Daniel Pearl and is now facing death penalty, was actually the British secret Agency MI6ís agent and had executed certain missions on their behest before coming to Pakistan and visiting Afghanistan to meet Osama and Mullah Omar."

    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Pearl)
    One word, WHY? Why would MI6 kill an American reporter??

    Leave a comment:

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