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(OT) Who's Killing Russia's News Reporters?

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  • kpush
    replied
    Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
    This BBC story has triggered my intrest in this subject.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6164284.stm

    I am seeing these refrences to suppresion of news, to persecution of Russian and some western businessmen in Russia, and historians are complaining that acess to old archivial material is again denied. Last there are remarks about the current Russian governemnt being dominated by former leaders of the KGB.

    How much substance is there to all this?? Is there a clear establishment of a new totalitarian group in the Russian government?
    It is not creminal that curent leader from KGB and previous from C.P.S.U. (comunist party) - in Russia there is not anoth time to show up anybody who absolutely purity from sovet heritage and has the same popularity.

    For the rest, it has happened in UK - the country with the Chechen community the greatest all over the world. KGB gays has more delicious targets then Litvinenko, if we assume that thay feel free in special mission in UK territory.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
    This BBC story has triggered my intrest in this subject.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6164284.stm

    I am seeing these refrences to suppresion of news, to persecution of Russian and some western businessmen in Russia, and historians are complaining that acess to old archivial material is again denied. Last there are remarks about the current Russian governemnt being dominated by former leaders of the KGB.

    How much substance is there to all this?? Is there a clear establishment of a new totalitarian group in the Russian government?
    In Russia there is the strong opinion that it is deliberate propaganda campaign of the West. Every time Russia is becoming stronger the Western Mass Media began screaming of some nonsense. When in the 90th chaos was in the country but Russia was weak and had no independent policy the Western Mass Media spoke that all was OK in Russia.

    Now thesituation is much and much better than in past. Putin declared 4 national projects - "Health", "education", "homes for people" and I forgot the fourth.

    Now the state bagan to pay money for teachers and medics, to buy new medical and educational equipment.

    Putin declared the hypothecary program which will let for people to get own homes. Before that it was impossible to ordinary people to get it as banks demanded too much first payment and gave money at high interest. To get won home was and is the most difficult problem for the Russians who didn't get it in the time of the USSR. Now the situation is changing, I myself know a few people who bought flats. But it is still not to easy to get it.

    The Russians like Putin because:

    1. He is a honest
    2. He is a Russian patriot
    3. He has an independent policy and is not a Western puppet like Yeltsin.
    4. He is a strong person.

    For me, Putin is Russian De Gaule.

    Before Putin the situation was becoming worse and worse every year, after Putin came the situation is becoming better and better. Russia has a lot of problems but in the 90th the situation was much worse.

    To the point, now the actors who played bandits and oligarchs in movies in the 90th are playing policemen, officers, secret service agents.

    The people from security services have two qualities that differ them from other people.

    1. In the Soviet time many people went to KGB, Army and Intelligence to serve to their country. They were patriots of their country. Putin recalled that he decided to join to Intelligence after he saw "Shield and Sword", a famous Soviet movie about Soviet spy in Nazi Germany.

    2. They know what responsibility is. They are not political clowns or gabbers. They are accustomed to understand the responsibility for what they are doing and they have experience to make decisions.

    But itis wrong to think that Putin's administration consists of former militaries or people from secret services.

    Now his main deputy is Dmitrii Medvedev. He is a civilian man. Mikhail Fradkov, the Prime-Minister, is a civilian. Sergei Ivanov, the Minister of Defence, is not a professional militaty, he looks like a civilian official. Sergei Mironov, an important senator, is a civilian. Foreign Affairs Minister, Sergei Lavrov, is a professional diplomat. And so on.

    The Western reporters shows means to make order in the country as the returning to totalitarian regime. The educated Russians read in Internet and newspapers what nonsense the Western Mass Media speak about Russia and the authority of the West is very low now (especially after bombing of Yugoslavia, invasion in Iraq, anti-Russian Western policy in the Ukraine and in Georgia and so on).

    Leave a comment:


  • Carl Schwamberg
    replied
    This BBC story has triggered my intrest in this subject.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6164284.stm

    I am seeing these refrences to suppresion of news, to persecution of Russian and some western businessmen in Russia, and historians are complaining that acess to old archivial material is again denied. Last there are remarks about the current Russian governemnt being dominated by former leaders of the KGB.

    How much substance is there to all this?? Is there a clear establishment of a new totalitarian group in the Russian government?

    Leave a comment:


  • joea
    replied
    Originally posted by kpush View Post
    But situation than "One person suggested the BBC should be considered a terrorist organization." unnaturally for Russia.
    Not 100% sure what you mean, on another forum of another website (not this one) someone, not Russian, called the BBC a terrorist organisation that should be banned. I was emphasising with an extreme example (because the BBC is relatively mainstream and less subjective IMHO) that no voices should be silent.

    Of course veterans would be angry but I think they should try tell their (Russian) story. There was an excellent film about the hostage incident in Beslan that was presented at a Human Rights festival in Geneva that showed terrorists also violate human rights. I wish someone would talk to Chechens to see if they are blackmailed or threatened by different groups, undoubtedly including mafia elements.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    Originally posted by kpush View Post
    I share your opinion of journalist murder: "no matter how stupid they have a right to say what they want".
    But situation than "One person suggested the BBC should be considered a terrorist organization." unnaturally for Russia.
    It is hart to contradict that Politkovskaya has close connection with Chechen rebels. If some person works with people who live with drastic law, it is no wonder that he can be murdered by his brothers in arm. Government has no law to suppress such kind of contacts and it is practically impossible and expensive to appoint small army of body guards to look after some journalist.
    I wonder that a Russian calls Chechen боевики "rebels" (повстанцы). Very unusual.
    Last edited by Andrey; 15 Nov 06, 05:29.

    Leave a comment:


  • kpush
    replied
    Originally posted by joea View Post
    ... I feel a bit different about journalists, no matter how stupid they have a right to say what they want. If she did say she would not tell the authorities about a terrorist attack then they ought to go to jail. I have read here and on other forums how many Americans dislike or hate ABC or CNN (and people on the left hate Fox news) One person suggested the BBC should be considered a terrorist organisation. So these attitudes are not unique to Russia. If it is also true no one listened to here then of course no reason to kill her. I suggest though the Russian government pay attention to how US "spin doctors" operate then no one would even think Russia could do anything wrong just like the US tries to convince people.
    I share your opinion of journalist murder: "no matter how stupid they have a right to say what they want".
    But situation than "One person suggested the BBC should be considered a terrorist organization." unnaturally for Russia.
    It is hart to contradict that Politkovskaya has close connection with Chechen rebels. If some person works with people who live with drastic law, it is no wonder that he can be murdered by his brothers in arm. Government has no law to suppress such kind of contacts and it is practically impossible and expensive to appoint small army of body guards to look after some journalist.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    Originally posted by DANNGOC View Post
    You can't say its OK when there are too many murders!

    And:

    http://lenta.ru/news/2006/10/17/notguilty/
    Присяжные оправдали пятерых обвиняемых в убийстве вьетнамского студента
    Các quan tòa đã tha bổng 5 bị cáo trong vụ sát hại sinh viên Việt Nam

    Коллегия присяжных городского суда Санкт-Петербурга вынесла оправдательный приговор пятерым подозреваемым, обвинявшимся в убийстве вьетнамского студента Ву Ань Туана, сообщает агентство РИА Новости.
    Кроме того, присяжные оправдали еще троих подсудимых, которым гособвинение инкриминировало нападение на проживающих в Петербурге иностранцев.
    Вместе с тем, согласно вынесенному присяжными вердикту, десять из 17-ти человек, проходящих по делу об убийстве Ву Ань Туана, признаны виновными в разбойном нападении, разжигании национальной розни и побоях. Присяжные также признали, что национальный мотив присутствовал в нападении обвиняемых на палестинского студента Гидрометеорологического института и студента-филолога из Китая.
    Двадцатилетний студент первого курса Санкт-Петербургского политехнического университета Ву Ань Туан был убит - предположительно бандой скинхедов - 13 октября 2004 года на улице Льва Толстого в Петроградском районе города. Но его теле насчитали 37 ножевых ран.
    Правоохранительным органам Петербурга удалось задержать некоторых участников нападения. Один из них во время предварительного следствия дал признательные показания, на основании которых были арестованы другие члены банды. Однако позже задержанный от своих показаний отказался.
    Между тем, по данным следствия, арестованные скинхеды были причастны не только к убийству Ву Ань Туана, но также к ряду других преступлений, в том числе к убийству таджикской девочки Хуршеды Султоновой, сенегальского студента Лампсара Самбы и ученого-правозащитника Николая Гиренко.
    Напомним, что в отношении семи из восьми обвиняемых в убийстве Хуршеды Султоновой присяжные также вынесли оправдательный приговор, а восьмого обвиняемого признали виновным в грабеже.

    http://www.vz.ru/society/2006/10/17/53246.html
    You mix different cases.

    And beleive me, in the 90th the amount of murders was MUCH more.

    Leave a comment:


  • DANNGOC
    replied
    You can't say its OK when there are too many murders!

    And:

    http://lenta.ru/news/2006/10/17/notguilty/
    Присяжные оправдали пятерых обвиняемых в убийстве вьетнамского студента
    Các quan tòa đã tha bổng 5 bị cáo trong vụ sát hại sinh viên Việt Nam

    Коллегия присяжных городского суда Санкт-Петербурга вынесла оправдательный приговор пятерым подозреваемым, обвинявшимся в убийстве вьетнамского студента Ву Ань Туана, сообщает агентство РИА Новости.
    Кроме того, присяжные оправдали еще троих подсудимых, которым гособвинение инкриминировало нападение на проживающих в Петербурге иностранцев.
    Вместе с тем, согласно вынесенному присяжными вердикту, десять из 17-ти человек, проходящих по делу об убийстве Ву Ань Туана, признаны виновными в разбойном нападении, разжигании национальной розни и побоях. Присяжные также признали, что национальный мотив присутствовал в нападении обвиняемых на палестинского студента Гидрометеорологического института и студента-филолога из Китая.
    Двадцатилетний студент первого курса Санкт-Петербургского политехнического университета Ву Ань Туан был убит - предположительно бандой скинхедов - 13 октября 2004 года на улице Льва Толстого в Петроградском районе города. Но его теле насчитали 37 ножевых ран.
    Правоохранительным органам Петербурга удалось задержать некоторых участников нападения. Один из них во время предварительного следствия дал признательные показания, на основании которых были арестованы другие члены банды. Однако позже задержанный от своих показаний отказался.
    Между тем, по данным следствия, арестованные скинхеды были причастны не только к убийству Ву Ань Туана, но также к ряду других преступлений, в том числе к убийству таджикской девочки Хуршеды Султоновой, сенегальского студента Лампсара Самбы и ученого-правозащитника Николая Гиренко.
    Напомним, что в отношении семи из восьми обвиняемых в убийстве Хуршеды Султоновой присяжные также вынесли оправдательный приговор, а восьмого обвиняемого признали виновным в грабеже.

    http://www.vz.ru/society/2006/10/17/53246.html

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    Originally posted by DANNGOC View Post
    Oh my carelessness, sorry...

    Anatoly Voronin, Business Chief of Russian News Agency Itar-Tass Found Dead.

    http://www.mosnews.com/news/2006/10/...efkilled.shtml
    So what? Why will Putin get troubles?

    Why it is not OK in the country now?

    Leave a comment:


  • DANNGOC
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrey View Post
    Who is Voronin???
    Oh my carelessness, sorry...

    Anatoly Voronin, Business Chief of Russian News Agency Itar-Tass Found Dead.

    http://www.mosnews.com/news/2006/10/...efkilled.shtml
    Last edited by DANNGOC; 17 Oct 06, 18:32.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    Originally posted by DANNGOC View Post
    Oh poor Mr. Voronin. There would be a lot of troubles for President Putin.

    It can't be OK now, Andrey...
    Who is Voronin???

    Leave a comment:


  • DANNGOC
    replied
    Oh poor Mr. Voronin. There would be a lot of troubles for President Putin.

    It can't be OK now, Andrey...

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    I agree with Andrey's opinion.

    I always wonder, why our "ultra-democrats/liberals"
    i) consider only themselves to be democrats in the whole country
    ii) fight against the state forgetting that only strong state can protect human rights. When Russian state was weak (not only in 1990s, but much earlier, in 1917, for example) we couldn't speak about any real rights.

    Leave a comment:


  • joea
    replied
    Well, I'm glad then. Frankly I couldn't give a s*** about a corrupt politician or a crooked banker. Heck here in Geneva last year a very powerful private banker and friend of the French politician named Stern was found dead. His mistress was arrested (the guy was supposedly found in umm a rubber suit and had been doing some unconventional sexual practices) and there were questions about the real motives and a book coming out. Well that is as much as I know and as much as I want to know.

    I feel a bit different about journalists, no matter how stupid they have a right to say what they want. If she did say she would not tell the authorities about a terrorist attack then they ought to go to jail. I have read here and on other forums how many Americans dislike or hate ABC or CNN (and people on the left hate Fox news) One person suggested the BBC should be considered a terrorist organisation. So these attitudes are not unique to Russia. If it is also true no one listened to here then of course no reason to kill her. I suggest though the Russian government pay attention to how US "spin doctors" operate then no one would even think Russia could do anything wrong just like the US tries to convince people.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    In conclusion, all is OK in Russia. Relax. Nothing bad is going on. It is only one more hysteryc in Western mass media

    Leave a comment:

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