Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

(OT) Who's Killing Russia's News Reporters?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • pp(est)
    replied
    Andrey, I sincerely doubt if Litvinenko would have been in a car accident it would have caused any ruccus. I see no precedent for that. Can you find any example of the evil western mass media claiming that a car accident killing a Russian is handywork of KGB?

    KGB/FSB/their lackies using poison for assasination - there is precedent for that. KGB/FSB using car bombs - there is precedent for that too.

    Litvinenko was poisoned by unknown poison by unknown manner. Something which happens very rarely in this world and almost never without foul play being involved. Litvinenko just happened to be a defector, a vocal critic of Putin/FSB and investigating what happened to Politovskaya. I guess it was another case of poisoning by friends to get some sympathy going. Seriously, it might be that Putin wasn't directly involved (and he definitely has several layers of plausible denial), but it almost certainly was somebody close enough.

    Andrey, everybody in Europe already knows Putin is effectively a dictator. He could benefit by killing Politovskaya off at this moment to show any who might harbor thought of dissent what the west will do if he did use ultimate measures against his critics - the answer is absolutely nothing, something he knew and something we in the west know, but perhaps something some idealist in Russia didn't want to believe before. This is just hypothetical though - as I said I think a more likely suspect is that president of Chechnya.
    Last edited by pp(est); 22 Nov 06, 07:20.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    About the poisoning.\ and Western russo-phobia.

    If Litvinenko was killed during a traffic accident (by ordinary bus) so Western mass media would scream that really it was done by the Soviet Intelligence which wanted to show it as an ordinary accident because the Russians don't want to show that they did it.

    If Litvinenko was killed by a extravagant method (by an explosion od a small atomic bomb in his pocket) so Western mass media would scream that really it was done by the Soviet Intelligence which wanted to show to everyone that those were Russians who did it to scare the remaining "opposition".

    The Russians are guilty in any case whatever happened because they are Russians.

    All the stories of Litvinenko, Berezovsky and so on are FALSE. Only the Westerners continue to believe it because it follows to Western phobia about strong Russia. It is a lie only, remember about it.

    I told earlier who Berezovky is and who is Litvinenko.

    The Russian opinion is that Berezovsky himselfd organised the attampt to kill Litvinenko to tell later that the Russians did it.

    The first question in any investigation is "To whom it was advantageous?" Was it advantageous to Putin to order to kill Politkovskaya right in the time when Putin was moving to Western Europe to have important negotiations? It was easier to do it AFTER he would returned?

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by pp(est) View Post
    Must be tough in Russia, friends constantly murdering friends to make enemies look bad for no gain other than some sympathy. If you guys do this to your friends I don't even want to know what you do with your enemies. Oh wait, I do have a good idea what you do with your enemies once you get your hands on them. Ugh, I better keep that in mind when the elections come up.
    Spare me from such a friends, and from enemies I will escape myself

    [heavy sarasm mode on] Andrey and Amvas aren't you afraid that someday one of you might want to kill the other to make say me look bad and get some sympathy? [heavy sarasm mode off]
    [sarkasm mode] Why need me to be afraid of something? [/sarkasm mode]

    BTW I don't think Putin had Politovskaya killed. She was too marginalised for that and most of the journos are already very afraid and keeping the party line. I do think she was killed by somebody who is comfortable to have enough pull with Putin to be safe. Perhaps that Chechnyan president.
    Sometimes "God deliver me from fools"...

    Regards,
    Alex
    Last edited by amvas; 22 Nov 06, 05:50.

    Leave a comment:


  • pp(est)
    replied
    Must be tough in Russia, friends constantly murdering friends to make enemies look bad for no gain other than some sympathy. If you guys do this to your friends I don't even want to know what you do with your enemies. Oh wait, I do have a good idea what you do with your enemies once you get your hands on them. Ugh, I better keep that in mind when the elections come up.

    [heavy sarasm mode on] Andrey and Amvas aren't you afraid that someday one of you might want to kill the other to make say me look bad and get some sympathy? [heavy sarasm mode off]

    BTW I don't think Putin had Politovskaya killed. She was too marginalised for that and most of the journos are already very afraid and keeping the party line. I do think she was killed by somebody who is comfortable to have enough pull with Putin to be safe. Perhaps that Chechnyan president.
    Last edited by pp(est); 22 Nov 06, 04:16.

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave T View Post
    The poisoning of Litvinenko - now a british citizen - is a big story on UK TV news and was subject of a big article and leader column in a major broadsheet - The Daily Telegraph.
    If Intelligence would like to posion anybody, they would employ something more effective...

    Various scenarios are considered including Putin silencing a critic, intelligence services sending out a message to discourage defectors, someone setting out to discredit Putin / Russia.
    Too stupid scenarios...

    Who knows the truth in this world of ex-spies, exiled oligarchs, secret services, terrorists, murderers.
    Be so kind.
    Thispuppet of Berezovsky ran away from here long ago...
    He's absolutely unaware about modern realities here...
    He' like a "Difficault to catch Joe" (which can't be caught because nobody wants him)

    Renegade British Intelligence Services agents have in the past gone public and "blown the whistle" to allege immoral plans, and have been ridiculed and prosecuted.
    I understand Litvinenko took similar action to expose a planned assassination of Berezovsky.
    When Litvinenko loudly decalted "planned assassination of Berezovsky" he had been his puppet.
    I myself am not death of Berezovsky because he's among the most evel figures in modern Russian history....
    his fairy-tales how democratic he is are not more than empty words, not approved by anything else....

    He was prosecuted and acquitted twice and convicted in his absence at the third attempt. Litvinenko apparently also claimed FSB were behind 9.11 and al-Qua'eda seniors were FSB agents, and that Moscow appartment bombings were done by FSB to frame Chechens and give an excuse for war. Is he a fantasist or well connected, well-informed exile / defector / traitor seeking to expose the truth, latterly about Politkovskaya murder?
    I think such declarations must be studied not by lie detector, but by psychiatrists.
    Behind those declaration one can evidently trace style of Chechen terrorists whose especial beloved way was to blame russian secret services for those terroristic acts they (I mean Chechens) had performed.
    Well-known Dr. Hoebbels's style "More violent lie is the most believable"

    Former KGB Colonel and exile Gordievsky implies he knows the identity of the poisoner, now back in Moscow, and claims it wouldn't have happened without permission of Putin whereas the British spy writer Nigel West does not think FSB would be involved.
    Oh, yesssss... Old traitors always know everything!....
    Even if they escaped from justice dozens years ago!!!
    I believe he can know posoner, who most likely is among surrounding of Berezovsky, who wants to use "used chess piece" once more

    Whatever the case, it is going to be a tough investigation for the Metroplitan Police who have their hands pretty full already with terrorist plots and a Prime Minister to interview!
    All traces leads to Berezovsky...
    If we again remember story with "poisoning" of Yushchenko, (with Berezovskiy supllying him during elections) poisoning of Litvinenko can be treated as a trend...

    Andrey is correct about negative reporting, in UK at least, about Russia. All the reports are of Putin increasingly behaving as a dictator with plan to hold Europe to ransom over energy resources.
    What a stupidity

    Then there are the reports about interference in Ukraine, Georgia, about rise of Far Right Groups etc.
    Well, so, when western organisations iworks with Georgia, Ukraine et.al. it's of course welcomed. But when Russians (who are connected with those nations through all their history) do something similar, it's interpreted like "imperial trends"... Nice conception, indeed....

    There is little to promote Russia as a holiday destination! Because of what I see in the media in UK, am always interested to see very different views expressed by Russians on the forum.
    Russians are rather different...Be sure..
    I can meet absolute different opinions on many subjects...

    Anyway, it took a long time but the Markov story eventually came out and that was a state sponsored assassination. Time will tell in the present case.

    Leave a comment:


  • Psycho
    replied
    Originally posted by Dave T View Post
    Andrey is correct about negative reporting, in UK at least, about Russia.
    Good to know. He is however wrong about the US media. I hear almost nothing about Russia at all. Whenever something is reported no anti-Russian bias is shown. It is just delivered as news.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave T
    replied
    The poisoning of Litvinenko - now a british citizen - is a big story on UK TV news and was subject of a big article and leader column in a major broadsheet - The Daily Telegraph.
    Various scenarios are considered including Putin silencing a critic, intelligence services sending out a message to discourage defectors, someone setting out to discredit Putin / Russia. Who knows the truth in this world of ex-spies, exiled oligarchs, secret services, terrorists, murderers.
    Renegade British Intelligence Services agents have in the past gone public and "blown the whistle" to allege immoral plans, and have been ridiculed and prosecuted.
    I understand Litvinenko took similar action to expose a planned assassination of Berezovsky. He was prosecuted and acquitted twice and convicted in his absence at the third attempt. Litvinenko apparently also claimed FSB were behind 9.11 and al-Qua'eda seniors were FSB agents, and that Moscow appartment bombings were done by FSB to frame Chechens and give an excuse for war. Is he a fantasist or well connected, well-informed exile / defector / traitor seeking to expose the truth, latterly about Politkovskaya murder?
    Former KGB Colonel and exile Gordievsky implies he knows the identity of the poisoner, now back in Moscow, and claims it wouldn't have happened without permission of Putin whereas the British spy writer Nigel West does not think FSB would be involved.
    Whatever the case, it is going to be a tough investigation for the Metroplitan Police who have their hands pretty full already with terrorist plots and a Prime Minister to interview!
    Andrey is correct about negative reporting, in UK at least, about Russia. All the reports are of Putin increasingly behaving as a dictator with plan to hold Europe to ransom over energy resources. Then there are the reports about interference in Ukraine, Georgia, about rise of Far Right Groups etc. There is little to promote Russia as a holiday destination! Because of what I see in the media in UK, am always interested to see very different views expressed by Russians on the forum.
    Anyway, it took a long time but the Markov story eventually came out and that was a state sponsored assassination. Time will tell in the present case.

    Leave a comment:


  • kpush
    replied
    Originally posted by Slim Fan View Post
    But now we have Alexander Litvinenko poisoned by what appears to be radioactive thallium while investigating Anna Politkovshaya's murder. It's not exactly a poison that can be procured at your local high street pharmacy. So it's reassuring to hear the Kremlin's dismissal of suggestions of their involvement as total nonesense. For a while there, I was worried.
    Yes, thallium is used in medical radiography, in industry of production extrinsic semiconductor, alloyed steel and probe sensor.
    So there is no way to assert that thallium is an special services exclusive instrument.

    Leave a comment:


  • Slim Fan
    replied
    But now we have Alexander Litvinenko poisoned by what appears to be radioactive thallium while investigating Anna Politkovshaya's murder. It's not exactly a poison that can be procured at your local high street pharmacy. So it's reassuring to hear the Kremlin's dismissal of suggestions of their involvement as total nonesense. For a while there, I was worried.

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by joea View Post
    This Berezovsky is a real crook and traitor! Certainly no "democrat" people like that have no soul. Ready to sell out anyone, and every country has had them. I prefer open honest enemies...at least you know.
    Unfortunately too many people on the west listen to his speeches and think everything is too bad here...

    Leave a comment:


  • joea
    replied
    This Berezovsky is a real crook and traitor! Certainly no "democrat" people like that have no soul. Ready to sell out anyone, and every country has had them. I prefer open honest enemies...at least you know.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    I should say a pair words about Berezovsky. In 90th he controlled a lot of officials, he was a friend of Yeltsin's family.

    His connections to Chechen bandits were well known. There was a case when a radio-interception of his talking to one of Chechen bandits's leaders was printed in mass media and shown on TV.

    They had a common business - those bandits stole people (militarues, civilians) and asked ransom. Berezovsky organised the payment of ransom and showed the situation so that it looked like his diplomacy was the result of the prisoners' liberation. Both sides were glad - thebandits got much money from Russianstate, Berezovsky showed himself as a man who saved prisoners.

    One more example.
    In 1996 Berezovsy was appointed a Chief of Security Council of Russia.
    He flew in Chechnya. In that time the Chechen bandits captured Grozny but were blocked there by Russian Army. Their situation was very heavy. Berezovsky came to the headquarters of the United Troops Group in Chechen Republic.

    Gen. Troshev, the Chief of the Army Group in that time, recalled what happened later.

    Berezovsky ordered to him to remove troops from roads and to stop to block Grozny. Troshev tried to dispute that the Chechen bandits were blocked in Grozny and it was only a question oftime to destroy them there.

    Berezovsky said to him: "Shut up, General! I am able to sell your f***ng Army Group, to buy and to resell again. So shut up and do what I am speaking!"

    So the blockade of Grozny was removed.

    When Putin became the Prime-Minister and the the President Berezovsky supposed he would be his puppet. But Putin showed himself as a strong person and began to fight against Berezovsky.

    Col. Litvinenko was Berezovsky's man in FSB. Once a few men from FSB orgnised a press-conference where they declared that they had got an order to kill Berezovsky. Later it occurred that they were liars. They run away from Russia, one of them was Col. Litvinenko. Berezovsky also run away from Russia.

    Now Berezovsky and Litvinenko live in Britain as "political refugees". Berezovsky gave a lot of money to "orange revolution" in the Ukraine in 2004, Russian and Ukrainian mass-media showed a radio-interpeption of his talkings to the leaders of Ukrainian revolution where he instructed then what they should do.

    In 2004 before the presidental elections, Berezovsky invited Vladimir Soloviev, a famous TV reporter, to Britain and offered him to take part in presidental elections.Berezovsky said to him that he would organise "the murder of a famous leader of opposition" and the world public opinion would be offended bu it. Soloviev returned to Russia and said about it to a few leaders of Russian "democratic opposition". Boris Nemtsov said to Soloviev: "Is he a crazy? Does he want to shoot me?" Late Soloviev wrote about that story in Russian mass media.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrey
    replied
    Originally posted by kpush View Post
    ... oil and gas prices increase and increase .

    In 90th oil and gas prices also were high but only a few oligarchs were becoming richer and richer.

    Leave a comment:


  • amvas
    replied
    Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
    This BBC story has triggered my intrest in this subject.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6164284.stm

    I am seeing these refrences to suppresion of news, to persecution of Russian and some western businessmen in Russia, and historians are complaining that acess to old archivial material is again denied. Last there are remarks about the current Russian governemnt being dominated by former leaders of the KGB.

    How much substance is there to all this?? Is there a clear establishment of a new totalitarian group in the Russian government?
    Just some remarks.

    so called "colonel Litvinenko" is a puppet of Berezovsky.
    Who is well known for especial "love" to russia and personally to V.V Putin.
    In all mass-media he's crying about his aim to change reginme in Russia by "revolutionary" means (i.e. illegal and non-democratic in the terms of law)

    Scenario with "poisoning" is damn similar to "poisoninig" Mr. Yushchenko, prior to the president elections in Ukraine (btw, Berezovsky that time supported just him)

    --

    "historians are complaining that acess to old archivial material is again denied"

    Nice phrase. It's warming me...<evil laugh>

    Yes, some restrictions in military archives did take place. It's forced by too simple access to battle maps of so called "black diggers".
    That dudes makes excavations on battlefields only for artefacts (mostly German) for further resale on the west. So, these restrictions are directed just against those "businessmen". However this led to large problems among ordinary researchers, because access to many opened documents appeared to be enclosed just because presense of maps inside needed dossiers.
    Such a paradoxal situation....A document itself is opened, but you can't read it, because it's stored together with a document, which was assumed to be of limited usage....

    Regards,
    Alex

    Leave a comment:


  • kpush
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrey View Post
    Before Putin the situation was becoming worse and worse every year, after Putin came the situation is becoming better and better.
    ... oil and gas prices increase and increase .

    Leave a comment:

Latest Topics

Collapse

Working...
X