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  • #16
    Upside down U

    Hi:

    I have several tables for transliteration, but I can not find a Cyrillic letter that looks like an upside down U with the top flat, instead of curved.

    Help?

    Regards,

    John
    Stranger! To Sparta say, her faithful band,
    Here lie in death, remembering her command.

    www.wwii-photos-maps.com

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by John Calvin View Post
      Hi:

      I have several tables for transliteration, but I can not find a Cyrillic letter that looks like an upside down U with the top flat, instead of curved.

      Help?

      Regards,

      John

      "" - analogue of Latin "p"

      Comment


      • #18
        Cyrillic

        Andrey:

        I am confused. My table has a character that looks like II with a diagnal line and the latin is i. The character II without the diagnal line is supposed to be p.

        John
        Stranger! To Sparta say, her faithful band,
        Here lie in death, remembering her command.

        www.wwii-photos-maps.com

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by John Calvin View Post
          Andrey:

          I am confused. My table has a character that looks like II with a diagnal line and the latin is i. The character II without the diagnal line is supposed to be p.

          John
          "П", "п" - analogue of Latin "p".

          "И", "u" - analogue of Latin "i".

          "Й" - hmmm... usually it is "i" or "y"

          "Н" - analogue of Latin "n"
          Last edited by Andrey; 18 Sep 07, 22:48.

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          • #20
            Cyrillic Alphabet

            Andrey:

            Now I get it, I think. Verifying that I have correctly transliterated the names of locations on Russian maps is very difficult. Comparing my results with German maps is problematic as they use their own German words, or they use nicknames, or the location is not noted at all, or the city or town is in the wrong place.

            Thanks for the help,

            John
            Stranger! To Sparta say, her faithful band,
            Here lie in death, remembering her command.

            www.wwii-photos-maps.com

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by John Calvin View Post
              Andrey:

              Now I get it, I think. Verifying that I have correctly transliterated the names of locations on Russian maps is very difficult. Comparing my results with German maps is problematic as they use their own German words, or they use nicknames, or the location is not noted at all, or the city or town is in the wrong place.

              Thanks for the help,

              John
              Check
              APPENDIX I RUSSIAN ALPHABET TRANSLITERATION ACCORDING TO U. S. BOARD OF GEOGRAPHIC NAMES
              If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

              Comment


              • #22
                Soviet supply units translations

                Hi Alex,

                I have a little problem with the Perechen lists due to many words I don't know. For supply units what exactly are the:
                Field Army Depots - Prodovolystvennie
                Field Army Depots - Obozno-Vechevoy

                Among others but now these if you can help me.

                Thanks
                Mat

                Comment


                • #23
                  Hi, Mat

                  Originally posted by matasso View Post
                  Hi Alex,

                  I have a little problem with the Perechen lists due to many words I don't know. For supply units what exactly are the:
                  Field Army Depots - Prodovolystvennie
                  Field Army Depots - Obozno-Vechevoy

                  Among others but now these if you can help me.

                  Thanks
                  Mat
                  Field Army Depots - Prodovolystvennie
                  - Food depots

                  Field Army Depots - Obozno-Vechevoy
                  Hmm... It's more hard to explain.
                  Direct translation would be Carts-store.
                  I can guess they were depots of goods for horses

                  Regards
                  Alex
                  If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by matasso View Post
                    Field Army Depots - Obozno-Vechevoy
                    Mat,

                    You can see there are two words:
                    'Obozno' means supply for horse-drawn carts
                    'Veschevoy' means clothes, footwear and personal non-combat equipment (belts, knapsacks an so on)

                    Sometimes those types were mentioned together, sometimes were divided in "Veschevoe" supply and "Obozno-hozyaistvennoe" supply.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Rambow View Post
                      Mat,

                      You can see there are two words:
                      'Obozno' means supply for horse-drawn carts
                      'Veschevoy' means clothes, footwear and personal non-combat equipment (belts, knapsacks an so on)

                      Sometimes those types were mentioned together, sometimes were divided in "Veschevoe" supply and "Obozno-hozyaistvennoe" supply.
                      You mix "oboznyi" and "guzhevoi".

                      'Guzhevoi' means supply for horse-drawn carts.

                      "Oboznyi" is an archaic word from ancient time when rear services were called "obozy". So in some military terms it was used as "rears services".

                      So "Obozno" can mean rear services supply depot.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Andrey View Post
                        You mix "oboznyi" and "guzhevoi".

                        'Guzhevoi' means supply for horse-drawn carts.

                        "Oboznyi" is an archaic word from ancient time when rear services were called "obozy". So in some military terms it was used as "rears services".

                        So "Obozno" can mean rear services supply depot.
                        Andrey,

                        Perhaps you are right for some time periods or some units or arms. IIRC in WWII rear services usually included:
                        1) Subsistence Supply (Prodovolstvennoe Snabzhenie) or Subsistence and Forage Supply (Prodovolstvenno-Furazhnoe Snabzhenie)
                        2) Сlothing and other non-combat equipment Supply (Veschevoe Snabzhenie)
                        3) "Obozno-hozyaistvennoe Snabzhenie"
                        Sometimes second and third combined in "Obozno-Veschevoe Snabzhenie". I suppose it can be checked easily with NKO organizational orders for instance. I have never heard about 'Guzhevoi' Supply. But horse-drawn cart or sleigh were used widely and they needed lots of special supply. Personally for me supply for personnel is "Veschevoe Snabzhenie", carts and other equipment for horse-drawn transport is "Oboznoe Hozyastvo" so supply for it is "Obozno-hozyaistvennoe Snabzhenie".

                        In any case it seems pretty difficult to find exact translation for that

                        P.S. In WWII RKKA had Obozno-Veschevoe Upravlenie, now it is named Veschevoe Upravlenie - because of russian army does not have horse-drawn transport now but they have rear service of course I suppose.

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                        • #27
                          Guzhevoi transport - the oficial name of horse-drawn carts

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            supply translations

                            Many thanks all for the help.


                            As for Obozno-Vechevoy is seems difficult because the units always appear as one in the Perechen Lists. Could it be simply horse transported clothing supply depots?

                            I have some other help to ask

                            First what is torgovo-zagotovntelynaya?

                            and as I know imushetva is ammunition. Can it also mean equipment or something similar. Because if its logical for chemical ammo depots its less for engineer ammo or trophy ammo depots

                            Thanks
                            Mat

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by matasso View Post
                              Many thanks all for the help.


                              As for Obozno-Vechevoy is seems difficult because the units always appear as one in the Perechen Lists. Could it be simply horse transported clothing supply depots?

                              I have some other help to ask

                              First what is torgovo-zagotovntelynaya?

                              and as I know imushetva is ammunition. Can it also mean equipment or something similar. Because if its logical for chemical ammo depots its less for engineer ammo or trophy ammo depots

                              Thanks
                              Mat
                              imushchestvo ~ impedimenta. It can mean absoltely different sort of equipment. It's very wide term and includes almost all goods needed for army (inlcuding ammunition too)

                              boyepripasy = ammunition

                              torgovo-zagotovitel'naya ~ commercial purchsing

                              Regards
                              Alex
                              If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                supply translations

                                Many thanks Alex,

                                So Imushetvo is generic, ok so it explains a lot; I suppose then torgovo/torgovaya are commercial so it would explain the romanian targ = market, negociation... hehehe, even a latin language can have influences

                                Mat

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