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Best marshal of the soviet union during ww2

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  • #76
    It is VERY slow. Don't do other things (like uhhh listen to music or watch vidoes) it is very annoying to me as well.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by chuikov
      1. Brutal with subordinates?! Was that unusual?

      2. Criticizing Zhukov after the war is a strictly political, and after-the-fact issue. This does not apply to the question at hand.

      3. It was his boss's responsibility to understand the strategic situation on the race to Berlin.

      Maybe he wasn't cut out to go beyond army level during war, but he was there when it counted most.
      1. Using a stick is considered unusual.

      2. He jumped in when Stalin was discrediting Zhukov's war effort; that lacks character at any time. Rybalko on the other would not denounce Zhukov in a meeting chaired by Stalin--that's moral courage.

      3. A good subordinate who has potential for higher command actively seeks to understand his boss's mission and responsibilities that is how one learns to eventually grasp not only the marshal's baton but also how to advance to higher positions and ranks.

      He was a fighter, there is no arguing that point. And he's a hero for his efforts at Stalingrad (and maybe it took a stick to achieve it). But he was not Marshal material, IMHO.
      Last edited by R.N. Armstrong; 25 Jun 06, 17:55.
      Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong
        1. Using a stick is considered unusual.

        2. He jumped in when Stalin was discrediting Zhukov's war effort; that lacks character at any time. Rybalko on the other would not denounce Zhukov in a meeting chaired by Stalin--that's moral courage.

        3. A good subordinate who has potential for higher command actively seeks to understand his boss's mission and responsibilities that is how one learns to eventually grasp not only the marshal's baton but also how to advance to higher positions and ranks.

        He was a fighter, there is no arguing that point. And he's a hero for his efforts at Stalingrad (and maybe it took a stick to achieve it). But he was not Marshal material, IMHO.
        You sound like a USA officer who is used to having rules and routines! (maybe RN) Very cute either way.

        ...Anyway, I expected a much more harsh rebuke for my overstatements.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by chuikov
          You sound like a USA officer who is used to having rules and routines! (maybe RN) Very cute either way.

          ...Anyway, I expected a much more harsh rebuke for my overstatements.
          Chuikov would have smacked you on the head with a stick.
          Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong
            Chuikov would have smacked you on the head with a stick.
            No execution?

            Imposing the will is all that counted in those days.

            Today is confusing.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by chuikov
              No execution?

              Imposing the will is all that counted in those days.

              Today is confusing.
              Agree, imposing will is the combat leader imperative, even today. I remember stories from Vietnam of young infantry officers who had near-mutinous draftees who did not want to do a dangerous night patrol or more than share of combat operations. Officers often had to head out by themselves hoping to shame them to join the mission. Good, fair and respected officers would get results.

              General(then Colonel) Balck used the same technique to expand the German bridgehead at Sedan in 1940.

              Katukov would use sarcastic barbs which alienated some of his subordinates. Bogdanov and Lelyushenko were much like a Guderian, they were forward with lead elements--leadership by example.

              Such techniques have a lasting effect, even a bonding effect.

              If one uses a stick, the subordinates will work only to avoid the stick.
              Last edited by R.N. Armstrong; 24 Jul 06, 07:58.
              Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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              • #82
                Sounds like the local War College.

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                • #83
                  Zhukov

                  I'd have to say Zhukov. He won Stalingrad which was almost captured. Not to mention the huge tank battle of Kursk. He is a commander who knows how to achieve victory!
                  "Let arms yield rank to the toga of peace." -Cicero

                  "People complain about official corruption, but that's nothing compared with our criminal waste of time." -From Ikiru

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                  • #84
                    Zhukov was not running Stalingrad! He was after the Rhzev pocket and 9th army

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