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russian units at the battle of berlin

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  • #16
    Originally posted by thomas.tmcc
    hi alex thanks what does it mean ? ..

    "OOB for the 1st Gds. TA" , means the Order Of a Battle (composition) of the 1st Guards Tank Army

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    • #17
      yeah andrey i cant speak or read russian mate .
      owner of the yahoo group for WW1 ,WW2 and Modern TO&Es
      (Tables of organisation & equipment or Unit of action )

      http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/TOandEs/

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Andrey
        "OOB for the 1st Gds. TA" , means the Order Of a Battle (composition) of the 1st Guards Tank Army

        hi I found this site tonight by accident -

        http://www.rickard.karoo.net/article...es_berlin.html

        it list the divisions of the 8th guards army and the 1st guards tank army and the corps ,what would the regiments/battalions be of the following divisions ?

        8th guards army
        4th guards rifle corps
        35th guards rifle div
        47th guards rifle div
        57th guards rifle div

        28th guards rifle corps
        39th guards rifle div
        79th guards rifle div
        88th gurads rifle div

        29th guards rifle corps
        27th guards rifle div
        74th guards rifle div
        82nd guards rifle div

        do the tank brigades and infantry divisions have numbered battalions and regiments ? .
        owner of the yahoo group for WW1 ,WW2 and Modern TO&Es
        (Tables of organisation & equipment or Unit of action )

        http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/TOandEs/

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        • #19
          Originally posted by thomas.tmcc
          hi I found this site tonight by accident -

          http://www.rickard.karoo.net/article...es_berlin.html

          it list the divisions of the 8th guards army and the 1st guards tank army and the corps ,what would the regiments/battalions be of the following divisions ?

          8th guards army
          4th guards rifle corps
          35th guards rifle div
          47th guards rifle div
          57th guards rifle div

          28th guards rifle corps
          39th guards rifle div
          79th guards rifle div
          88th gurads rifle div

          29th guards rifle corps
          27th guards rifle div
          74th guards rifle div
          82nd guards rifle div

          do the tank brigades and infantry divisions have numbered battalions and regiments ? .

          alex sent me this and asked to me to post it too,on the berlin street map I posted the 8th guards army and the 1st guards tank army ,the only corps listed on the maps I have are the 4th,28th and 29th guards rifle corps for the attacks on the area on the map ,which tanks units would be involved here ? ,any help guys thanks .


          This data is correct on May. 01'45

          Will add to them

          3rd Artillery Breakthrough Corps
          18 ABD (65 LAB, 58 HAB, 2,80 HHAB,120 SHAB,42 MinBde) ,
          3 Gds. Separate Recon Artillery Battalion
          29 ABD (182 LAB, 186 HAB, 189 HHAB, 184 SHAB, 46 MinBde, 26 Heavy
          Mortar Brigade, 36 Gds. Mortar Brigade)
          43 Gds. Gun Art, Brig,
          40 Gds, 1091 Corps Art. Reg.
          295 Gds Gun Art. Reg.
          1 Superior Power Gun Art. Reg.
          38 ATAB
          26 Gds. ATAR
          141 Mortar Regt.
          2 Gds Mortar Division (17,20,26 Gds. Mortar Brigade)
          59,311 Gds. Mortar Regts.
          3 Gds. AA division (297,307,308,309 Gds. AA Regts.)
          878 AA Reg.
          6 Separate Artillery Observation Balloon Battalion

          7 Gds. Heavy Tank Brig.
          34 Gds. Heavy Tank Reg.
          65,259 Separate Tank Reg.
          371,394 Gds, 694,1061,1087,1200 SP Gun Regt.
          273 Separate Special Destination Motorized Battalion

          64 Sapper-Engineer Brigade

          6,19 Sep. Flamethrower Battalions

          ABD- Art. Breakthrough Div.
          ATAB - Antitank Art. Brig.
          ATAR - Antitank Art. reg.
          LAB-Light Art. Brigade
          HAB - Howitzer Art. Brig.
          HHAB- Heavy Howitzer Art. Brig.
          SHAB-Super-Heavy Art. Brig.
          MinBde-Mortar Brig.
          >
          > do the tank brigades and infantry divisions have numbered battalions and regiments ? .

          Tank and rifle battalions were 1,2,3 numbered
          Rifle regiments had their personal numbers

          Plz. Put them on the forum, as now I have no access to the net...

          --
          Best regards
          Alex
          AMVAS
          Last edited by thomas.tmcc; 22 Mar 05, 06:49.
          owner of the yahoo group for WW1 ,WW2 and Modern TO&Es
          (Tables of organisation & equipment or Unit of action )

          http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/TOandEs/

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          • #20
            I want to add that according the memoirs of General Popel, the deputy of the commander of the 1st Gds Tank Army, the 1st Guards Tank Army had the extreme shortage of soldiers in the combats directluy in Berlin. There were moments when the personal of the staffs was sent in a combat as ordinary infantrymen.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Andrey
              I want to add that according the memoirs of General Popel, the deputy of the commander of the 1st Gds Tank Army, the 1st Guards Tank Army had the extreme shortage of soldiers in the combats directluy in Berlin. There were moments when the personal of the staffs was sent in a combat as ordinary infantrymen.

              hi andrey was this due to combat casualties etc ? that staff were being used ? .
              owner of the yahoo group for WW1 ,WW2 and Modern TO&Es
              (Tables of organisation & equipment or Unit of action )

              http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/TOandEs/

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              • #22
                Originally posted by thomas.tmcc
                hi andrey was this due to combat casualties etc ? that staff were being used ? .
                Here what Popel wrote about it:

                "In that day I heard from many people the details of the combat of the 1st Guards Tank Brigade in the Gneizenau Street.
                The brigade had few sub machine gunners and its tanks had to pave the way themselves. And only two tanks could move on the narrow street.

                It was like a training area. A few forward tanks shot, the other tanks stood behind and were waiting where the place to them will be free. But this "training area" was peculiar: the replacement was possible only after the death and wounds of the comrades who moved before. The tankmen stood in one place, sometimes the moved forward, being glad for the sake of their comrades, but then the new "bonfire" broke out before them and they saw how their heavy wounded and burnt comrades were carried past them in the rears. Then the commander of the brigade waved with a signal flag: "Next ones, go ahead!" and the fearless Guardians, believing that their crew will win and accomplish its task, moved in the free place instead of the becoming a casualty. A tank replaced a tank but the brigade a meter after meter captured enemy territory, bit through enemy defense, pulverized enemy forces.

                What was Temnik [the commander of the 1st Tank Brigade] feeling while he sent, a wave after a wave, the crews, with whom he went thousands of kilometers, in the combat? No one is able to tell what he felt in that last part of his military path, at any price carrying out an order. But when it became quite few sub machine gunners and sappers, and when it became very difficult for the tanks to overcome the enemy defense, Temnik decided to do desperate action. He gathered the officers and political officers of his staff, all the officers ho were nearly him, offered the to dress clean uniform, to put on their medals and orders, and to take sub machine guns. Temnik leaded this "group of sub machine gunners" himself and they went on an assault of the enemy positions.

                Gelenkov [the commander of "Katyusha" unit] whose mortar battalion operated together with Temnik's brigade recalled:

                "They cleaned the first block of building for a half of an hour. Then Temnik said: "So, friends, we accomplished our yesterday's task, it is time to carry out our today's task. Let's go ahead!". They cleaned a floor after a floor, exploded the defending Germans - Faust rocket launchers operators, and eliminated enemy sub machine gunners. The brigade overcame the second block of buildings. Task was practically fulfilled. The tanks moved ahead, covering the group of Temnik. But a few Faust rocket launchers fired from a 5th floor and a mortar shell exploded. Temnik and a few other officers fell. I crept to him, and Temnik asked me: "Gelenkov, are you alive?... Is each of us alive?" I answered to him: "Yes, each of us is alive". But it was the false, each of us, who was around, lay, been hitted. Shustov was already cold as a splinter hit him in his heart and he was killed outright. Shustov was three times considered unfit according his wounds - nearly Moscow in 1941, in Kursk in 1943, in Vistula in 1944 but he remained in the ranks, came to Berlin but couldn't to live to see the end of the war..."

                A tear began to roll on a cheek of Gelenkov. He continued:

                "We immediately sent Temnik in a hospital but the doctors couldn't save him - the splinters of a mortar shell burnt through his stomach. We carrying out him before the eyes of all the brigade, everyone in the brigade knew that their commander was wounded mortally. And the tankmen rushed ahead so furiously that cleaned all the street for three hours and came to the Angalt railway station...

                The 1st Guards Tank Brigade fulfilled completely the day's task."
                Last edited by Andrey; 23 Mar 05, 05:58.

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                • #23
                  thanks for that moving story andrey shows the loyality and respect to their commander the unit finished there task ,and against great enemy resistance too I will bet ,what unit was the 1st tank brigade part of the 1st guards tank army ? .
                  owner of the yahoo group for WW1 ,WW2 and Modern TO&Es
                  (Tables of organisation & equipment or Unit of action )

                  http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/TOandEs/

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by thomas.tmcc
                    thanks for that moving story andrey shows the loyality and respect to their commander the unit finished there task ,and against great enemy resistance too I will bet ,what unit was the 1st tank brigade part of the 1st guards tank army ? .
                    The 1st Guards Tank Brigade was the unit of the 1st Guards Tank Army. It was the most glorious Soviet tank brigade.

                    In October of 1941 during the Battle for Moscow the Germans broke the Soviet defense in the region of Orel and the Panzer Group of Guderian rushed in the direction of Tula. The Soviet forces were encircled and only the 4th Tank Brigade of Katukov was on the way of the German Panzer Group. Katukov used the tactics of tank ambushes and in a few combats in the region of Mtsensk his brigade crushed the German 3rd (or 4th?) Panzer Division and slowed down on a few days the advance of the whole German Panzer Group!!! It was a huge success that let for the Soviet command to concentrate reserves and to prepare the defense of Tula. In the result the Germans couldn't capture Tula.

                    For that success the 4th Tank Brigade got rank "Guards" and was renamed in the 1st Guards Tank Brigade. Katukov, the commander of that brigade in the October of 1941, later became the commander of the 1st Tank Army (in 1944 this Army got rank "Guards") which contained his old brigade.

                    Katukov is the most famous Siviet Tank commander.
                    Last edited by Andrey; 23 Mar 05, 05:57.

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                    • #25
                      wow thanks andrey good info any more ? ..
                      owner of the yahoo group for WW1 ,WW2 and Modern TO&Es
                      (Tables of organisation & equipment or Unit of action )

                      http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/TOandEs/

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                      • #26
                        Great stories Andrey...amazing courage of these guys who went ahead and risked death even though the war was nearly over.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by joea
                          Great stories Andrey...amazing courage of these guys who went ahead and risked death even though the war was nearly over.
                          When I was reading the memoirs of Popel, I was amazed how many officers of the 1st Guards Tank Army were killed in Poland and Germany in the last year of the war...

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                          • #28
                            Here is another episode from Popel.

                            "...We stopped our armored troops-carrier nearly a many-floors house where there was a field kitchen. There were many people nearly it. Soldiers, sergeants, officers - everyone was getting food, waiting his turn, some ones are already eating. I see a few German children between them. Small citizens of Berlin come to our soldiers, extend their small hands with clutched in them cups and soup-plate. A small curly-headed boy with ragged pants stands nearly the cook. "Kushat" ("to eat") is the first Russian word that he has studied. The cook neatly filled his soup-plate with some food as full as possible. The boy said by a thin little voice: "Danke shen" ("Thank you very much" (in German)). And suddenly the cook blandly caressed boy's tufts with his wide palm. But then the cook saw us and, not known how we shall estimate his action, turned red ad began to justify himself: "Comrades generals, I gave some food for a child. I saw very many things for the time of the war but my heart doesn't endure to see hungry children."

                            An about seven years old boy, to whom the sergeant filled some sweet tea from a churn, looked at the dainty with hungry eyes but he took a grip on himself and, explaining: "Fur Mama ("For Mama" (in German))" carried the teat in the house. The sergeant was deeply touched:

                            "What should we do if we catch Hitler?" - He became to discus this juridical problem with his comrades, in those days very many of our men thought about it. "I suppose that we must to punish him in the eyes of these children who must see who is the reason of their sufferings. Let they themselves will tear him on small pieces!"

                            Another soldier answered: "They will tear him if we are nearly but they will not do it without our presence."

                            In spite the fact that there was a large combat the sounds were heard very well in a city. The walls of houses absorbed noise and even an artillery cannonade was heard as it was distant. Everything here was different than in a combat in a field. Suddenly my ear heard an unusual whistle which quickly approached from above. I heard the command: "Air" and my feet themselves carried me in the cover. It was a reflex as I was hundreds times under the shootings of "junkerses", "heinkels" and "messers".

                            We looked with an alarm in the planes which left a narrow white trace in the sky behind them.

                            "Their speed is very fast" Katukov estimated it by eye. "It is well that Hitler had only a few such planes."

                            It was the first time when we saw jet planes. Quickly gone down over the column, a few planes shot it with machine guns. The sergeant, who filled tea to the German boy a minute before, fell. Comrades quickly carried him in a cover. Arsentii, our field doctor, tried to help to him but it was too late.

                            Suddenly we heard the screams: "Medics!" Two small German girls who were nearly the field kitchen with kasha were hit by the bullets of the planes. Arsentii was the alone doctor here so he bandages the wounded and sent them in the field hospital..."

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                            • #29
                              This is good it shows how the Red Army could be kind to German civilians, as opposed to the usual stories we hear.

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                              • #30
                                yes it is good to hear the red army was kind to the populace of berlin etc ,unlike some of the other stories we hear ,I would like to hear more on this why not do a separate thread for it ? .
                                owner of the yahoo group for WW1 ,WW2 and Modern TO&Es
                                (Tables of organisation & equipment or Unit of action )

                                http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/TOandEs/

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