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  • Abbreviation Question

    I am translating some Russian information from the BSSA records. I have a problem with the following abbreviation: осп (б/H)

    The осп translates as “individual rifle regiment” but there is no listing for (б/H) in the BSSA abbreviations listings.

    Anyone have any ideas about this?

    Thanks for your help,

    Dann

  • #2
    Originally posted by Dann Falk
    I am translating some Russian information from the BSSA records. I have a problem with the following abbreviation: осп (б/H)

    The осп translates as “individual rifle regiment” but there is no listing for (б/H) in the BSSA abbreviations listings.

    Anyone have any ideas about this?

    Thanks for your help,

    Dann
    осп means отдельный стрелковый полк, it means separate rifle regiment.

    In this case separate means that this regiment was not organized as part of one step more formation (Brigade, Division, Corps).

    As I understand this unit can be organized not by usual way.

    For example,
    Communists of some city gathered and decided to help fo Front - to organze Rifle regiment. In this case Red Army command could cal them separare rifle regiment and to send in a front where this regiment could become part of usual formation.

    Also it can be personnel of military school - for example, situation was too bad and High Command ordered for a Military School to stop studying, to organize rifleregiment on base of students and teachers of this school and to send them on front as reinforcement for retreating troops.

    Also sometimes Command asked troops in rears to send some troops in front. Many Brigades of Marines were organized by such way. Red Army Command asked Navy to help, Navy organized some ordinary ship's sailors and officers into regiments and brigades, called them regiments and brigades of marines and sent in frontline.

    Also it can be remainders of broken formations. For example, a army was encircked, some units could breakthrough but their amount was so little that Command ordered to organize regiment on base of remainders of army.

    Comment


    • #3
      BSSA Abbreviations

      Great information Andrey, what you said makes perfect sense. This separate rifle regiment was listed as being with the 64 Army at Stalingrad, December 1, 1942. Any idea about what the extension (б/H) is used for?

      Also, I found another strange abbreviation not listed in BSSA: (без 111 д-Ha)
      I translate this to be (without 111 bottoms) This is about an Artillery unit that is clearly missing the 111 sub unit, but I can not find out what the д-Ha is.

      Thanks again for any info.

      Dann

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Dann Falk
        Great information Andrey, what you said makes perfect sense. This separate rifle regiment was listed as being with the 64 Army at Stalingrad, December 1, 1942. Any idea about what the extension (б/H) is used for?
        "б/Н" can mean "без названия" (without name, nameless).

        As I understand it can be regiment which was organized and sent in battle so quickly that Command had no time to give official name for this unit. In this case such unit could be called by the name og its commander only.

        Or if this regiment was organized for temporal tasks and with quick disbanding or re-forming after completing of this mission.

        Also, I found another strange abbreviation not listed in BSSA: (без 111 д-Ha)
        I translate this to be (without 111 bottoms) This is about an Artillery unit that is clearly missing the 111 sub unit, but I can not find out what the д-Ha is.
        д-на can mean "дивизиона". Russian artillery "дивизион" means US artillery battalion.
        Last edited by Andrey; 10 Dec 04, 21:44.

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        • #5
          Hi Andrey,

          I think you are correct about the "б/Н" = "без названия" (without name, nameless) because the next month, January 1, 1943 the separate rifle regiment is not listed. It appears to have been active for a time, and then it disappears.

          The д-на, was related to a Guards Mortar Regiment (rocket) so it could be missing a battalion. Again, it makes sense.

          Thanks again for your insight.

          Dann

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Dann Falk
            The д-на, was related to a Guards Mortar Regiment (rocket) so it could be missing a battalion. Again, it makes sense.
            I want to add that "-" sign inside word can mean that some letters in well-known words are removed for economy of space in paper and of time.

            Examples:

            к-р means командир (commander)
            л-т means лейтенант (leuitenant)
            м-р means майор (major)
            п-к means полковник (colonel)
            п/п-к means подполковник (leuitenant colonel)
            б-да means бригада (brigade)

            Also it was very often when formation temporaly lost some sub units. For example artillery regiment of Reserve Of Supreme Command supported Rifle Division. Suddenly Command knew about German attack in other place but to send whole this artillery regiment means to leave the Rifle Division without artillery cover. So Command gives order for artillery regiment's commander "You must to leave one "divizion" (art. battalion) in your current place for support of Rifle Division and quickly rush in ... with all your other forces, Germans brokethrough there."

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            • #7
              Thanks for the further information. Those examples are the sort of thing no one talks about. You need to be Russian to understand the slight differences in old documents.

              That second part is very interesting. It could explain something about some of the Artillery units I have seen. I know that the “76 Guard Mortar Regiment” was listed in September but then in October it was displayed like this “346/76 Guard Mortar Regiment”. Do you think the 346 is a sub unit, something like 346 Battalion of the 76 Guard Mortar Regiment?

              Dann

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Dann Falk
                Thanks for the further information. Those examples are the sort of thing no one talks about. You need to be Russian to understand the slight differences in old documents.
                Did you ask any Russian about it - :-)? Did you ask Russian with Arny experience - :-)? I have two years experience of Russian Army as leuitenant.

                If you need I am ready to answer on any questions excluding where are our missiles - :-).


                That second part is very interesting. It could explain something about some of the Artillery units I have seen. I know that the “76 Guard Mortar Regiment” was listed in September but then in October it was displayed like this “346/76 Guard Mortar Regiment”. Do you think the 346 is a sub unit, something like 346 Battalion of the 76 Guard Mortar Regiment?
                yes, you are right.

                And separation of units was very wide in Red Army. for example, two armies are defending, 8th and 9th (it is only example). Germans attacked 8th Army. Some time later commander of 9th Army got order "Your fronline is calm so you have to transmit two divisions, five tank brigades, 8 artillery regiments to 8th Army".

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                • #9
                  One small correction "б/н" (b/n) exactly means "without number"
                  If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

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                  • #10
                    This attachment can help in decryption of some abbreviations...
                    (in russian)
                    Attached Files
                    If you fire a rifle at the past, the future will fire a cannon at you.....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank you Andrey for your help, I really appreciate it. I know the RKKA Forum is where to go for clarifications. Also, thanks to Amvas for the info update.

                      Have to run for now….

                      Dann

                      Now if I only could find those Missiles…..?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Good info! Andrey, AMVAS thanks!
                        a brain cell

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