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Russia's War-Blood Upon The Snow...Any Good?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by ShAA View Post
    Mark Solonin is a well-known proponent of Victor Suvorov's thesis on "Stalin's preventive war", which first originated in Hitler's excuse for the war with the Soviet Union. His books are overfilled with ideological conjectures and gross factual errors - pretty much like those of his idol Suvorov-Rezun.

    In the passage you've quoted there's nothing to disprove what Soviet historians or Overy say, only hollow ranting about "propaganda".
    since it is hollow ranting about" propaganda" do you mind sharing with us the date when Hitler proposed the military to prepare for a invasion
    of SU ?

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by R. Evans View Post
      That's a little fuzzier.

      The US actually was acting as a belligerent without a declaration of war against Germany. The Kearny incident would've been an interesting case to take to court. The Kearny responded to calls for help from Canadian convoy escorts and began dropping depth charges. The Canadians and Germans were legally at war, the US was not but came to help anyway. The case can be made that U-568 was simply defending itself against a ship that was trying to sink it. Almost any captain of a ship (or boat) would do the same.

      The Reuben James is a somewhat different story. She hadn't depth charged anyone but had positioned herself between a U-boat and its target. The target was an ammunition ship, a legitimate target. U-552 could argue that the Reuben James was topedoed accidentally but I doubt that's the case.

      PS- I didn't mean for this thread to start a whole debate on the start of the Soviet-Nazi War. Just want to know whether the documentary was worth watching. But that's okay.
      It is worth watching, just that caution and critical analysis is advised .

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by 1st cavalry View Post
        since it is hollow ranting about" propaganda" do you mind sharing with us the date when Hitler proposed the military to prepare for a invasion
        of SU ?
        21 june 1940
        Kind regards
        Igor

        * My grandfathers WW2 memoirs - Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, 1944-1945.
        * On the question of "2 mil. rapes" by RKKA
        * Verdicts of RKKA Military Tribunals for crimes against civilians in 1945

        Comment


        • #34
          Bloody hell guys, are we going to argue about the moronic ideas of the delusional Rezun... Again?
          “For there is nothing more serious than a lunatic when he comes to the central point of his lunacy.”

          Max Sterner

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Egorka View Post
            21 june 1940
            source please .

            Comment


            • #36
              June 1940 was the proposition, but the document was officially signed and approved on December 18, 1940.

              http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/...cument_id=1547
              www.histours.ru

              Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by 1st cavalry View Post
                source please .
                Franz Halder war diary.
                Why?
                Kind regards
                Igor

                * My grandfathers WW2 memoirs - Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, 1944-1945.
                * On the question of "2 mil. rapes" by RKKA
                * Verdicts of RKKA Military Tribunals for crimes against civilians in 1945

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Egorka View Post
                  Franz Halder war diary.
                  Why?
                  because you typed june instead of july.
                  Generally when trying to be brief one must stride to be accurate as well.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                    June 1940 was the proposition, but the document was officially signed and approved on December 18, 1940.

                    http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/...cument_id=1547
                    than all the talk of water flowing over the head should be taken with a grain of salt , no ?
                    Did the soviet high command hired a old gypsy fortune teller that revealed that
                    FRANCE would fall in 6 weeks ?
                    it is not the first time soviet historiography puts hindsight into forethought.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by 1st cavalry View Post
                      than all the talk of water flowing over the head should be taken with a grain of salt , no ?
                      Did the soviet high command hired a old gypsy fortune teller that revealed that
                      FRANCE would fall in 6 weeks ?
                      it is not the first time soviet historiography puts hindsight into forethought.
                      What are you babbling about at all?
                      www.histours.ru

                      Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                        What are you babbling about at all?
                        Fact :
                        Regardless of absence German military plans to invade Su until mid 1940,
                        Soviet union had embarked on a policy of aggression against her western neighbors.

                        You justification that : matters of strategic security became urgent and prevalent does not stand up to scrutiny.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by 1st cavalry View Post
                          Fact :
                          Regardless of absence German military plans to invade Su until mid 1940,
                          Soviet union had embarked on a policy of aggression against her western neighbors.

                          You justification that : matters of strategic security became urgent and prevalent does not stand up to scrutiny.
                          The collision course with Germany was set immediately after Hitler's rise to power. Until the Munich Betrayal there were possibilities of creating a collective security network against the German threat. After Czechoslovakia had been presented to Hilter on a silver platter and torn apart jointly by Germany and Poland, the Soviet foreign policy was revised.

                          This is not to mention its Western neibours were a pack of jackals which bit off whatever pieces they could get when Russia was weak during the Civil War and WWI. When the tables turned, they started crying foul.
                          www.histours.ru

                          Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                            The collision course with Germany was set immediately after Hitler's rise to power. Until the Munich Betrayal there were possibilities of creating a collective security network against the German threat. After Czechoslovakia had been presented to Hilter on a silver platter and torn apart jointly by Germany and Poland, the Soviet foreign policy was revised.
                            That assessment is circumstantial at best , dishonest at worst.
                            In September 1939 , France and Britain formally declared war on Germany, mobilization was started a naval blockade went into effect.
                            In the aftermath of the polish campaign, the German eastern border was striped to the bone to provide manpower for the west, even so the German
                            forces there did not outnumbered the western allies neither in terms of divisions aircraft or armor. At sea western naval forces outnumbered the German navy by large margin.
                            This is the time that Su used to settle the scores with her neighbors, any
                            attempt to pin the blame on Germans for this is futile.

                            Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                            This is not to mention its Western neibours were a pack of jackals which bit off whatever pieces they could get when Russia was weak during the Civil War and WWI. When the tables turned, they started crying foul.
                            At least this position is understandable, not justifiable but understandable.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by 1st cavalry View Post
                              That assessment is circumstantial at best , dishonest at worst.
                              In September 1939 , France and Britain formally declared war on Germany, mobilization was started a naval blockade went into effect.
                              In the aftermath of the polish campaign, the German eastern border was striped to the bone to provide manpower for the west, even so the German
                              forces there did not outnumbered the western allies neither in terms of divisions aircraft or armor. At sea western naval forces outnumbered the German navy by large margin.
                              This is the time that Su used to settle the scores with her neighbors, any
                              attempt to pin the blame on Germans for this is futile.
                              Who is "pinning the blame" on the Germans? You're having really serious trouble with reading comprehension.

                              At least this position is understandable, not justifiable but understandable.
                              Indeed, the landgrabs (or attempts of grabbing land) of Finland, Poland and Romania at Russia's expense in 1918-1922 are not justifiable, but understandable.
                              www.histours.ru

                              Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                                Who is "pinning the blame" on the Germans? You're having really serious trouble with reading comprehension.
                                be that as it may, but i did asked you to clarify this position repeatedly:

                                And the problem was these countries had entirely different relationships with their neighbour with the SU. When the matters of strategic defense became urgent and prevalent, there was no time for invitations and justifications.
                                also the assessment that su and Germany were on a collision course ever since Hitler took power, ignores the fact that there was no common border at that time.

                                Comment

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