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Russia's War-Blood Upon The Snow...Any Good?

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  • Erkki
    replied
    Originally posted by 1st cavalry View Post
    That assessment is circumstantial at best , dishonest at worst.
    In September 1939 , France and Britain formally declared war on Germany, mobilization was started a naval blockade went into effect.
    In the aftermath of the polish campaign, the German eastern border was striped to the bone to provide manpower for the west, even so the German
    forces there did not outnumbered the western allies neither in terms of divisions aircraft or armor. At sea western naval forces outnumbered the German navy by large margin.
    This is the time that Su used to settle the scores with her neighbors, any
    attempt to pin the blame on Germans for this is futile.
    So you are saying that SU attacked Germany?

    Leave a comment:


  • Erkki
    replied
    Originally posted by 1st cavalry View Post

    also the assessment that su and Germany were on a collision course ever since Hitler took power, ignores the fact that there was no common border at that time.
    Eh... Hitler quite clearly stated beyond any reasonable doubt that he didnīt like commies. USSR was quite dense with so called commies at the time. Besides that Old Adolf liked the idea of "living space". It isnīt exactly a very advanced concept to understand, especially as Adolf made short work of his internal commies inside Germany. Then we have the little fuzz in Spain with both sides taking sides.

    Besides I do not understand what you mean by no "common border". It is actually quite a nonsensical statement as fast as one actually bothers to consider a minor thing called reality. To make a very simple analogue. US and USSR had no common border during the cold war, that didnīt keep them from being on a collision course during basicly the whole cold war and a bit afterwards.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1st cavalry
    replied
    Originally posted by ShAA View Post
    Who is "pinning the blame" on the Germans? You're having really serious trouble with reading comprehension.
    be that as it may, but i did asked you to clarify this position repeatedly:

    And the problem was these countries had entirely different relationships with their neighbour with the SU. When the matters of strategic defense became urgent and prevalent, there was no time for invitations and justifications.
    also the assessment that su and Germany were on a collision course ever since Hitler took power, ignores the fact that there was no common border at that time.

    Leave a comment:


  • ShAA
    replied
    Originally posted by 1st cavalry View Post
    That assessment is circumstantial at best , dishonest at worst.
    In September 1939 , France and Britain formally declared war on Germany, mobilization was started a naval blockade went into effect.
    In the aftermath of the polish campaign, the German eastern border was striped to the bone to provide manpower for the west, even so the German
    forces there did not outnumbered the western allies neither in terms of divisions aircraft or armor. At sea western naval forces outnumbered the German navy by large margin.
    This is the time that Su used to settle the scores with her neighbors, any
    attempt to pin the blame on Germans for this is futile.
    Who is "pinning the blame" on the Germans? You're having really serious trouble with reading comprehension.

    At least this position is understandable, not justifiable but understandable.
    Indeed, the landgrabs (or attempts of grabbing land) of Finland, Poland and Romania at Russia's expense in 1918-1922 are not justifiable, but understandable.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1st cavalry
    replied
    Originally posted by ShAA View Post
    The collision course with Germany was set immediately after Hitler's rise to power. Until the Munich Betrayal there were possibilities of creating a collective security network against the German threat. After Czechoslovakia had been presented to Hilter on a silver platter and torn apart jointly by Germany and Poland, the Soviet foreign policy was revised.
    That assessment is circumstantial at best , dishonest at worst.
    In September 1939 , France and Britain formally declared war on Germany, mobilization was started a naval blockade went into effect.
    In the aftermath of the polish campaign, the German eastern border was striped to the bone to provide manpower for the west, even so the German
    forces there did not outnumbered the western allies neither in terms of divisions aircraft or armor. At sea western naval forces outnumbered the German navy by large margin.
    This is the time that Su used to settle the scores with her neighbors, any
    attempt to pin the blame on Germans for this is futile.

    Originally posted by ShAA View Post
    This is not to mention its Western neibours were a pack of jackals which bit off whatever pieces they could get when Russia was weak during the Civil War and WWI. When the tables turned, they started crying foul.
    At least this position is understandable, not justifiable but understandable.

    Leave a comment:


  • ShAA
    replied
    Originally posted by 1st cavalry View Post
    Fact :
    Regardless of absence German military plans to invade Su until mid 1940,
    Soviet union had embarked on a policy of aggression against her western neighbors.

    You justification that : matters of strategic security became urgent and prevalent does not stand up to scrutiny.
    The collision course with Germany was set immediately after Hitler's rise to power. Until the Munich Betrayal there were possibilities of creating a collective security network against the German threat. After Czechoslovakia had been presented to Hilter on a silver platter and torn apart jointly by Germany and Poland, the Soviet foreign policy was revised.

    This is not to mention its Western neibours were a pack of jackals which bit off whatever pieces they could get when Russia was weak during the Civil War and WWI. When the tables turned, they started crying foul.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1st cavalry
    replied
    Originally posted by ShAA View Post
    What are you babbling about at all?
    Fact :
    Regardless of absence German military plans to invade Su until mid 1940,
    Soviet union had embarked on a policy of aggression against her western neighbors.

    You justification that : matters of strategic security became urgent and prevalent does not stand up to scrutiny.

    Leave a comment:


  • ShAA
    replied
    Originally posted by 1st cavalry View Post
    than all the talk of water flowing over the head should be taken with a grain of salt , no ?
    Did the soviet high command hired a old gypsy fortune teller that revealed that
    FRANCE would fall in 6 weeks ?
    it is not the first time soviet historiography puts hindsight into forethought.
    What are you babbling about at all?

    Leave a comment:


  • 1st cavalry
    replied
    Originally posted by ShAA View Post
    June 1940 was the proposition, but the document was officially signed and approved on December 18, 1940.

    http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/...cument_id=1547
    than all the talk of water flowing over the head should be taken with a grain of salt , no ?
    Did the soviet high command hired a old gypsy fortune teller that revealed that
    FRANCE would fall in 6 weeks ?
    it is not the first time soviet historiography puts hindsight into forethought.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1st cavalry
    replied
    Originally posted by Egorka View Post
    Franz Halder war diary.
    Why?
    because you typed june instead of july.
    Generally when trying to be brief one must stride to be accurate as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Egorka
    replied
    Originally posted by 1st cavalry View Post
    source please .
    Franz Halder war diary.
    Why?

    Leave a comment:


  • ShAA
    replied
    June 1940 was the proposition, but the document was officially signed and approved on December 18, 1940.

    http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/...cument_id=1547

    Leave a comment:


  • 1st cavalry
    replied
    Originally posted by Egorka View Post
    21 june 1940
    source please .

    Leave a comment:


  • Erkki
    replied
    Bloody hell guys, are we going to argue about the moronic ideas of the delusional Rezun... Again?

    Leave a comment:


  • Egorka
    replied
    Originally posted by 1st cavalry View Post
    since it is hollow ranting about" propaganda" do you mind sharing with us the date when Hitler proposed the military to prepare for a invasion
    of SU ?
    21 june 1940

    Leave a comment:

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