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  • - the record, made directly from the movie “Na voine kak na voine”- 1380 kBt
    http://download.sovmusic.ru/m/pola_izr.mp3

    “The war took away the soldiers”

    It is the second good song from the post-WWII movie “Na voine kak na voine” (“At war is at war”) - the first, very famous song from this movie is "Tanks Were Rattling in a Field" ("Na pole tanki grokhotali").

    This movie is a about a few days of the life of the crew of a Soviet self-propelled gun in the summer offensive of 1943.

    The melody of the song is a very sad.

    And I am not sure that the Westerners will understand the meaning of the song so I’ll try to explain it (see the bottom).

    “The war took away the soldiers” [1]

    (Translated by Andrey)

    The fields are pitted,
    They look in the sky with abandoned look.
    It is for a few last years
    When a soldier was not at his home!

    But somewhere a spring in his homeland is waiting for him,
    And the talks of his homeland’s birds are waiting for him [2].
    But the war took him away;
    It took him away very far, beyond many forests and mountains…

    Why did you, war, turn a rye field
    Into a battlefield?
    The land is burnt by a fire,
    The each plot of the land was wounded severely!

    The land was ploughed for many days
    Only by tanks and shells.
    And only wormwood and goose-foot [3]
    Came up on the land…

    The land became permeated with the smell of powder,
    The land forgot the smell of corn.
    But it wants a warm rain
    And a blue clear sky [4]!

    And the land wants the Russian soldiers
    To return from the far land to their homeland’s sunsets.
    It wants all the Russian soldiers
    To return at home from the war…

    Remarks of Andrey:
    [1] “The war took away the soldiers” – it means here “the ordinary peaceful people – the peasants - went on the war as soldiers”
    [2]
    “But somewhere a spring in his homeland is waiting for him,
    And the talks of his homeland’s birds are waiting for him.”
    It means “a soldier went in the war and when he will return at home he will see again a beautiful spring in the homeland and will hear how his homeland’s birds sing.”
    [3] “wormwood and goose-foot” mean “weeds” here
    [4] “a warm rain and a blue clear sky” is an excellent weather for growing of corn.

    The explanation of the meaning of the song:
    The peasants went on the war as soldiers and no one cultivates the land which turned into a battlefield. The soldiers are very far, in far land and their home land is waiting for them. The destination of the land is to produce corn, to make the peaceful production and not to be a battlefield. The land is tired from the war; the land is wounded severely by the war and is waiting for a peaceful life. The land hopes that all the soldiers will return from the war and a usual peaceful life will begin again.


    "Uvela soldat voina"

    Polia izrytye lezhat,
    Osirotelo smotriat v nebo.
    Uzhe kotoryi god podriad
    Doma soldat ne byl!

    A gde-to zhdiot ego vesna,
    Ptich'i razgovory,
    Da uvela ego voina
    Za lesa, za gory…

    Zachem ty sdelala voina,
    Rzhanoe pole - polem brani?
    Zemlia ogniom obozhzhena,
    Kazhdyi klochok izranen!

    Zemliu pakhali mnogo dnei
    Tanki da snariady,
    I lish' polyn' vzoshla na nei
    S lebedoiu riadom…

    Propakhla porokhom zemlia,
    Ona zabyla zapakh khleba,
    A ei by tioplogo dozhdia
    I golubogo neba!

    Da chtoby s dal'nei storony
    Pod svoi zakaty
    Domoi vernulis' by s voiny
    Russkie soldaty…



    “Увела солдат война”

    Поля изрытые лежат,
    Осиротело смотрят в небо.
    Уже который год подряд
    Дома солдат не был!

    А где-то ждёт его весна,
    Птичьи разговоры,
    Да увела его война
    За леса, за горы…

    Зачем ты сделала война,
    Ржаное поле - полем брани?
    Земля огнём обожжена,
    Каждый клочок изранен!

    Землю пахали много дней
    Танки да снаряды,
    И лишь полынь взошла на ней
    С лебедою рядом…

    Пропахла порохом земля,
    Она забыла запах хлеба,
    А ей бы тёплого дождя
    И голубого неба!

    Да чтобы с дальней стороны
    Под свои закаты
    Домой вернулись бы с войны
    Русские солдаты…
    Last edited by Andrey; 18 Mar 05, 21:21.

    Comment


    • Andrey, it would be nice to see more songs from Rosenbaum and Vysotsky, I consider them to be some of the best singers and song writers. "A mozhit ne bila voyni" by Rosenbaum is a classic as well as his 'babi yar' and 'krasnaya stena' and Vysotsky's 'shtrafniye batalioni' 'mi vrashayem zemlu' and many others. Sorry if my spelling is off, I'm trying my best, but I think you'll know which songs I'm referring to.
      "This isn't Paris, you will not get through here with a Marching Parade!" Defenders of Stalingrad
      "Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out... and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel.... And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man" - with his mouth". Mark Twain
      "It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.” Voltaire

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Kunikov
        Andrey, it would be nice to see more songs from Rosenbaum and Vysotsky, I consider them to be some of the best singers and song writers. "A mozhit ne bila voyni" by Rosenbaum is a classic as well as his 'babi yar' and 'krasnaya stena' and Vysotsky's 'shtrafniye batalioni' 'mi vrashayem zemlu' and many others. Sorry if my spelling is off, I'm trying my best, but I think you'll know which songs I'm referring to.
        I presented the most popular military songs or the most nice (according MY opinion). It is impossible to present ALL the songs.

        Vysotskiy wrote a lot of songs about WWII and it will be very long story to present it. The situation with Rozenbaum is the same.

        And remember that the Westerners do not understand Russian text. A Russian will think about the meaning of the words of serious songs but the Westerners will listen only a set of sounds. So I doubt that the Westerners will like very much guitare songs of Vysotskiy and Rozenbaum. So I tried to present the songs with excellent music or psychological effect. I presented 1 Rozenbaum and 1 Vysotskiy's songs which have excellent music anfd energy.

        As I understand you are a Russian living in New York. So you are able to translate yourself Rozenbaum and Vysotskiy's asongs which you want. I suppose that you know English much better than I.

        If you need I can try to find links on free downloadable .mp3 files.

        Best regards.

        Andrey from Siberia, Russia

        Comment


        • Don't get me wrong, you did an excellent job with the songs you choose, I downloaded quite a few of them and with your translations, I understood them better than I did before , if I find the time I will try to translate a few of Rosenbaums and Vysotsky's as well. You are right about us listening for the meaning and having a better understanding, Americans will never see and hear what we see and hear in these songs.
          "This isn't Paris, you will not get through here with a Marching Parade!" Defenders of Stalingrad
          "Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out... and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel.... And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man" - with his mouth". Mark Twain
          "It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.” Voltaire

          Comment


          • http://www.geocities.com/vysotsky_songs/s3.html
            I actually consider to be one of the greatest songs written about the war, very powerful when he sings it with an orchestra.

            WE TURN THE WORLD *
            From the frontier we made the earth turn in reverse
            (That was at the beginning)
            But our Battalion commander corrected its course
            As his boot sent the Urals spinning.

            At last we were given the word to attack,
            To retake every inch that we prized so -
            But we never forgot how the sun, turning back,
            Almost sank on the Eastern horizon.
            With our feet our advance we don't measure,
            Nor vainly the flowers do we crush.
            With our boots we apply all our pressure,
            And we push! And we push!

            In the wind from the east the stacked hay is laid low
            And the sheep huddle up to the rocks as,
            Without using a fulcrum, directing the blow,
            We turn the earth round on its axis.

            Have no fear when the sun fails to set in the West,
            For Doomsday's a tale for the old ones.
            The earth's just rotated wherever is best
            At the will of our marching battalions.

            We cling to the low hills for protection -
            Hating this evil so much.
            We press down on the earth, our knees flexing,
            And we push! And we push!

            In this place shall you find not one soldier alive,
            Ready to hand himself over.
            But the corpses are useful to those who survive.
            To the living the dead offer cover.

            Will this stupid lead finish us all off at once,
            From the rear, or point-blank find its bullet?
            Ahead someone's stormed an emplacement for guns,
            And the earth has stood still for a minute.

            My footsteps I've left with my fellows -
            I mourn for each poor fallen soul.
            I turn the earth's sphere with my elbows -
            And I pull! And I pull!

            A soldier stands up, and then instantly falls,
            Got by a slug in the gizzard.
            But westward, still westward our company crawls
            To make sure that the sun rises eastward.

            We crawl through the mud ignoring the stench
            With which the dank marsh is infested.
            The sun from its usual path does not flinch,
            For we've burst through the battle-lines westward.

            Like wedding guests, fresh dews we sample
            Careless whether our limbs are still whole.
            Our teeth take the earth by the stubble,
            And we push! And we pull!

            МЫ ВРАЩАЕМ ЗЕМЛЮ
            От границы мы Землю вертели назад -
            Было дело сначала,-
            Но обратно ее закрутил наш комбат,
            Оттолкнувшись ногой от Урала.
            Наконец-то нам дали приказ наступать,
            Отбирать наши пяди и крохи,-
            Но мы помним, как солнце отправилось вспять
            И едва не зашло на востоке.
            Мы не меряем Землю шагами,
            Понапрасну цветы теребя,-
            Мы толкаем ее сапогами -
            От себя, от себя!

            И от ветра с востока пригнулись стога,
            Жмется к скалам отара.
            Ось земную мы сдвинули без рычага,
            Изменив направленье удара.
            Не пугайтесь, когда не на месте закат,
            Судный день - это сказки для старших,-
            Просто Землю вращают куда захотят
            Наши сменные роты на марше.
            Мы ползем, бугорки обнимаем,
            Кочки тискаем - зло, не любя,
            И коленями Землю толкаем -
            От себя, от себя!

            Здесь никто б не нашел, даже если б хотел,
            Руки кверху поднявших.
            Всем живым ощутимая польза от тел:
            Как прикрытье используем павших.
            Этот глупый свинец всех ли сразу найдет,
            Где настигнет - в упор или с тыла?
            Кто-то там впереди навалился на дот -
            И Земля на мгновенье застыла.
            Я ступни свои сзади оставил,
            Мимоходом по мертвым скорбя,-
            Шар земной я вращаю локтями -
            От себя, от себя!

            Кто-то встал в полный рост и, отвесив поклон,
            Принял пулю на вдохе,-
            Но на запад, на запад ползет батальон,
            Чтобы солнце взошло на востоке.
            Животом - по грязи, дышим смрадом болот,
            Но глаза закрываем на запах.
            Нынче по небу солнце нормально идет,
            Потому что мы рвемся на запад.
            Руки, ноги - на месте ли, нет ли,-
            Как на свадьбе росу пригубя,
            Землю тянем зубами за стебли -
            На себя! От себя!
            Last edited by Kunikov; 03 Jun 05, 10:34.
            "This isn't Paris, you will not get through here with a Marching Parade!" Defenders of Stalingrad
            "Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out... and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel.... And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man" - with his mouth". Mark Twain
            "It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.” Voltaire

            Comment


            • http://www.kulichki.com:8105/vv/eng/...from_the_fight

              He didn't return from the fight
              Russian title: On ne vernulsya iz boya
              Why has everything changed? Everything is the same:
              The sky is still shedding blue light
              The same forrest, same air, same water, same rain
              Only he is not back from the fight.

              Now I'll never find out who was right among us
              In our disputes, without respite.
              Only now I find I miss him because
              He didn't return from the fight.

              He was awkwardly quite, out of turn he would hum
              And he missed all the points outright
              He would not let me sleep, he was up with the sun
              Yesterday he was lost in the fight

              That its empty - that's not what this is about
              There is a TWO that is missing from sight
              And it feels as if wind had my fire blown out
              When he didn't return from the fight

              Burtsing out, as if from captivity, Spring
              By mistake I call out for a light
              "Friend, a smoke" but only the wind answering
              Yesterday he was lost in the fight

              Our dead will not leave us in fires to bake
              Our fallen - like gurdians defend
              And the forest reflecting the sky, like a lake
              And the trees radiating blue stand

              For us, space in the bunker was plenty enough
              And together we watched time's flight
              Now it's all just for one, but it feels like a bluff
              Feels like I really died in the fight.

              ON NE VERNULSYa IZ BOYa

              Pochemu vse ne tak? Vrode vse kak vsegda:
              To zhe nebo - opyat' goluboe,
              Tot zhe les, tot zhe vozduh i ta zhe voda,
              Tol'ko on ne vernulsya iz boya.

              Mne teper' ne ponyat', kto zhe prav byl iz nas
              V nashih sporah bez sna i pokoya.
              Mne ne stalo hvatat' ego tol'ko seichas,
              Kogda on ne vernulsya iz boya.

              On molchal nevpopad i ne v takt podpeval,
              On vsegda govoril pro drugoe,
              On mne spat' ne daval, on s voshodom vstaval,
              A vchera ne vernulsya iz boya.

              To, chto pusto teper', - ne pro to razgovor,
              Vdrug zametil ya - nas bylo dvoe.
              Dlya menya budto vetrom zadulo koster,
              Kogda on ne vernulsya iz boya.

              Nynche vyrvalas', budto iz plena, vesna,
              Po oshibke okliknul ego ya:
              - Drug, ostav' pokurit'! - A v otvet - tishina:
              On vchera ne vernulsya iz boya.

              Nashi mertvye nas ne ostavyat v bede,
              Nashi pavshie - kak chasovye.
              Otrazhaetsya nebo v lesu, kak v vode,
              I derev'ya stoyat golubye.

              Nam i mesta v zemlyanke hvatalo vpolne,
              Nam i vremya teklo dlya oboih.
              Vse teper' odnomu. Tol'ko kazhetsya mne,
              Eto ya ne vernulsya iz boya.
              "This isn't Paris, you will not get through here with a Marching Parade!" Defenders of Stalingrad
              "Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out... and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel.... And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man" - with his mouth". Mark Twain
              "It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.” Voltaire

              Comment


              • Kunikov:
                “I actually consider to be one of the greatest songs written about the war, very powerful when he sings it with an orchestra.”

                Andrey:
                “I suppose that I have to explain some aspects which can be non-understandable to a Westerner.

                It is really very difficult for translating song. Vysotskiy was a great master and it is not so easy to understand what he meant. Only a person of his culture can understand it (I mean that only a former Soviet citizen who lived in USSR in 60th, 70th or 80th years can understand what Vysotskiy meant in his songs). And I’ll try to explain how I, as a former Soviet, understand the meaning of the words of Vysotskiy”


                Vladimir Vysotskiy
                ”We push Earth to spin [1]”

                (Translated by ..., corrected by Andrey)

                From the frontier we pushed the Earth to spin in reverse
                Yes, it was on the first time. [2]
                But our Battalion commander, pushed off by his feet from the Ural,
                Began to turn it in correct direction. [3]
                At last we were given the order to advance,
                To retake every inch that we lost –
                But we remember how the sun, moving in reverse direction,
                Almost set on the Eastern horizon.[4]
                We are not going, crushing flowers in vain,
                On earth,
                We are pushing Earth by our boots, we are pushing it away
                From us, from us! [5]

                And a stacked hay is laid low because of the wind from the east
                And a sheep flock draws closer to the rocks. [6]
                We changed the direction of our blow
                And turned the earth round on its axis without using a fulcrum. [7]
                Have no fear when the sunset is not in its usual place,
                It is not Judgment Day, Judgment Day is only a tale for adults.
                Simply, the Earth is rotating where our companies
                Want to rotate it in a march.[8]
                We are crawling, pressing to knobs,
                We are embracing hillocks, and we are doing it maliciously, without love.
                And we are pushing Earth by our kneels, we are pushing it away
                From us, from us! [5]

                It is impossible here to find the men who raised their hands up,[9]
                Even if anyone wants to find such men.
                And the corpses are very useful to those who survive,
                We use the dead as a cover.
                Will this stupid lead [10] finish us all off at once?
                From where will it hit us - from the rear, or from the front as a point-blank fire?
                Ahead someone rushed on the embrasure of a bunker,[11]
                And the earth has stood still for a moment.
                My footsteps are behind,
                And, grieving for each poor fallen soul,
                I push the earth's sphere with my elbows -
                From me, from me! [5]

                Here a soldier stood up, bended forward to run in attack,
                And got a bullet during his sigh.
                But all the same it is on westward, it is still on westward where our battalion crawls
                For the sun rises eastward.[12]
                We crawl through the mud ignoring the stench
                With which the dank marsh is infested.
                The sun from its usual path does not flinch now,
                And it is because we are rushing westward.
                Careless whether our limbs are still whole.
                Sampling fresh dews, like wedding guests,
                We pull by our teeth the Earth with stalks of grass
                To us! From us! [5]

                The remarks of Andrey:

                [1] It is from Physics. There is a sphere (the (terrestrial) globe, the Earth) which has its axis. If someone will go in the ground of sphere from the East to the West or from the West to the East so he (or she) will push the ground to spin in opposite direction. So when millions of people go in one direction they push Earth to spin in opposite direction.

                [2] “From the frontier we pushed the Earth to spin in reverse
                Yes, it was on the first time”

                It means “we retreated from the border in the first time of the war, millions of soldiers moved from the West to the East and we pushed Earth to rotate from East to West by our feets”

                [3] “But our Battalion commander, pushed off by his feet from the Ural,
                Began to turn it in correct direction”

                It means “we retreated too much and when it was nowhere more to retreat (the Ural was close to the frontline), we stopped to retreat and pushed off from the Urals and began to move from the East to the West and began to push Earth to rotate in correct direction”

                [4] “But we remember how the sun, moving in reverse direction,
                Almost set on the Eastern horizon”

                It means “we remember the time when the complete catastrophe almost happened, when the Germans almost won”

                [5] “From us, from us!”
                “From me! From me!”
                “To us! From us!”

                – it is heard very furiously in Russian, it gives the impression of very persistent, desperate movement. It is like the scream of the soul: “On the West! On the West!” (It doesn’t mean “to conquer Europe”, it means to turn out damned invaders in the West up to their den, up to the Victory")

                [6] “And a stacked hay is laid low because of the wind from the east
                And a sheep flock draws closer to the rocks.”

                It means that mighty storm is moving from the East, that mighty storm is our Armies who have the resolution to crush the enemy and nothing is able to stop this mighty storm.

                [7] “We changed the direction of our blow
                And turned the earth round on its axis without using a fulcrum.”

                It means “we made very difficult job, we changed the fate of the war and it were only our people who did this job”

                [8] “Have no fear when the sunset is not in its usual place,
                It is not Judgment Day, Judgment Day is only a tale for adults.
                Simply, the Earth is rotating where our companies
                Want to rotate it in a march.”

                It means “our mighty forces are advancing with huge might and they choose where to go and their movement can change the history of the World (to force Eart to spin in any direction)“

                [9] it means “we are fighting and no one surrender”
                [10] “this stupid lead” – it is about bullets here

                [11] “Ahead someone rushed on the embrasure of a bunker”

                It is about the feat of Alexander Matrosov. Alexander Matrosov was very famous in USSR. During an advance Soviet infantry run up against a German bunker. A machine gun opened dense fire and the infantry lay in wait. The machine gun fired and fired and it was impossible to raise a head. Alexander Matrosov was an ordinary infantryman. He approached to the bunker but he had no means to stop the fire of the machinegun. And he rushed on the embrasure of the bunker and covered it by his body. The machinegun fire stopped for some time, the infantry raised in attack, captured the bunker and continued the advance. Alexander Matrosov got the rank of the Hero of Soviet Union (postmortal).
                Some Soviet soldiers repeated the feat of Alexander Matrosov later.

                [12] “For the sun rises eastward”

                Hmm… it can have two meanings:
                1. “Everything is going as usual, there are no catastrophe changes which had to happen in the case of German victory”
                2. “Sun rises over N.” sometimes mean “situation is good for N.” So it can mean “the situation is good for our country which is in the East from Europe”



                Vladimir Vysotskii
                "My vrashchaem Zemliu"

                Ot granitsy my Zemliu verteli nazad -
                Bylo delo snachala,-
                No obratno ee zakrutil nash kombat,
                Ottolknuvshis' nogoi ot Urala.
                Nakonets-to nam dali prikaz nastupat',
                Otbirat' nashi piadi i krokhi,-
                No my pomnim, kak solntse otpravilos' vspiat'
                I edva ne zashlo na vostoke.
                My ne meriaem Zemliu shagami,
                Ponaprasnu tsvety terebia,-
                My tolkaem ee sapogami -
                Ot sebia, ot sebia!

                I ot vetra s vostoka prignulis' stoga,
                Zhmetsia k skalam otara.
                Os' zemnuiu my sdvinuli bez rychaga,
                Izmeniv napravlen'e udara.
                Ne pugaites', kogda ne na meste zakat,
                Sudnyi den' - eto skazki dlia starshikh,-
                Prosto Zemliu vrashchaiut kuda zakhotiat
                Nashi smennye roty na marshe.
                My polzem, bugorki obnimaem,
                Kochki tiskaem - zlo, ne liubia,
                I koleniami Zemliu tolkaem -
                Ot sebia, ot sebia!

                Zdes' nikto b ne nashel, dazhe esli b khotel,
                Ruki kverkhu podniavshikh.
                Vsem zhivym oshchutimaia pol'za ot tel:
                Kak prikryt'e ispol'zuem pavshikh.
                Etot glupyi svinets vsekh li srazu naidet,
                Gde nastignet - v upor ili s tyla?
                Kto-to tam vperedi navalilsia na dot -
                I Zemlia na mgnoven'e zastyla.
                Ia stupni svoi szadi ostavil,
                Mimokhodom po mertvym skorbia,-
                Shar zemnoi ia vrashchaiu loktiami -
                Ot sebia, ot sebia!

                Kto-to vstal v polnyi rost i, otvesiv poklon,
                Prinial puliu na vdokhe,-
                No na zapad, na zapad polzet batal'on,
                Chtoby solntse vzoshlo na vostoke.
                Zhivotom - po griazi, dyshim smradom bolot,
                No glaza zakryvaem na zapakh.
                Nynche po nebu solntse normal'no idet,
                Potomu chto my rvemsia na zapad.
                Ruki, nogi - na meste li, net li,-
                Kak na svad'be rosu prigubia,
                Zemliu tianem zubami za stebli -
                Na sebia! Ot sebia!
                Last edited by Andrey; 07 Jun 05, 03:13.

                Comment


                • Actually Matrosov was from a Penal company/battalion, I cannot remember which one exactly, and that translation wasn't mine, I posted the site I got it from . Also, soldiers did the same feat as Matrosov but never got coverage for it because the press wasn't there at the right time and right place, lastly there is now some controversy about what he actually did, some say he crawled on top of the bunker and tried to throw grenades into it or some such, I can find the relevant reference if you like.
                  "This isn't Paris, you will not get through here with a Marching Parade!" Defenders of Stalingrad
                  "Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out... and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel.... And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man" - with his mouth". Mark Twain
                  "It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.” Voltaire

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Kunikov
                    Actually Matrosov was from a Penal company/battalion, I cannot remember which one exactly. Also, soldiers did the same feat as Matrosov but never got coverage for it because the press wasn't there at the right time and right place, lastly there is now some controversy about what he actually did, some say he crawled on top of the bunker and tried to throw grenades into it or some such, I can find the relevant reference if you like.
                    Answer some about you? Are you former Soviet or lived in USA for all your life? Do you visit Russia from time to time? Do you read Russian newspapers?

                    The things which you wrote about Matrosov were popular in Russia in the first half of 90th. It was the time to criticize everything what was made in the time of USSR.

                    Nobody can know exactly now how and why Matrosov did his feat. We know only what he did and he was a hero. Penal battalion? I doubt. And if others repeated his feat they became very popular.

                    and that translation wasn't mine, I posted the site I got it from .
                    Yeah, I found it already when I translated my version.

                    I didn't like the version which you found.

                    To the point how is my English?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Andrey
                      Answer some about you? Are you former Soviet or lived in USA for all your life? Do you visit Russia from time to time? Do you read Russian newspapers?
                      I was born in Chernovtsy in Ukraine, I came to the US when I was 6. I haven't been back yet, but I am going back on June 14th to visit Moscow and St. Petersburg. I don't read much in terms of Russian newspapers.

                      The things which you wrote about Matrosov were popular in Russia in the first half of 90th. It was the time to criticize everything what was made in the time of USSR.
                      Perhaps you are right, I can look up the reference and we can see if you are familiar with the sources used.

                      Nobody can know exactly now how and why Matrosov did his feat. We know only what he did and he was a hero. Penal battalion? I doubt. And if others repeated his feat they became very popular.
                      My friend told me about him being in a penal unit, I will e-mail him and get back to you with his source.


                      Yeah, I found it already when I translated my version.

                      I didn't like the version which you found.

                      To the point how is my English?
                      Your version was good, it wasn't 100% correct in terms of English grammar or sentence structure, but you did a very good job.
                      "This isn't Paris, you will not get through here with a Marching Parade!" Defenders of Stalingrad
                      "Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out... and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel.... And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man" - with his mouth". Mark Twain
                      "It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.” Voltaire

                      Comment


                      • Alexander Matrosov made his feat in February, 23rd of 1943 (it was holiday - the Day of Soviet Army and Navy) nearly the village of Chernushki nearly Velikiie Luki. Alexander Matrosov was a private of the 2nd Separate Rifle Battalion of the 91st Separate Rifle Brigade (later - the 254th Guards Rifle Regiment of the 56th Guards Rifle Division).

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Andrey
                          Alexander Matrosov made his feat in February, 23rd of 1943 (it was holiday - the Day of Soviet Army and Navy) nearly the village of Chernushki nearly Velikiie Luki. Alexander Matrosov was a private of the 2nd Separate Rifle Battalion of the 91st Separate Rifle Brigade (later - the 254th Guards Rifle Regiment of the 56th Guards Rifle Division).
                          I'll copy and paste my friends reply to me, apparently there is a lot of controversy about Matrosov.

                          "I might've believed it at some point. It was one version popular
                          during perestroika. But all sources pretty much agree on the unit he
                          was in, and it wasn't a penal company.

                          What might've pointed to him being in a penal company was the fact that
                          he got into the army after serving time in a labor colony (some sources
                          mention it, but I don't know for sure). He is also mentioned by name
                          in one NKVD report as an example of a prisoner sent to the front. Such
                          prisoners were usually sent to penal companies. But then, other
                          sources say he already served out his sentence by the time he was
                          sentenced. So I don't really know anything. Basically, this story is
                          so ****ing confused, that even the date of his death is uncertain.

                          Oh, and it turns out his real name was Shakirian Mukhamedianov. So
                          there. Don't ask me if it's true or not."

                          I'll believe either or, I don't have a biased against or for Matrosov, just want to know the truth about him.
                          "This isn't Paris, you will not get through here with a Marching Parade!" Defenders of Stalingrad
                          "Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out... and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel.... And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man" - with his mouth". Mark Twain
                          "It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.” Voltaire

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Kunikov
                            I'll copy and paste my friends reply to me, apparently there is a lot of controversy about Matrosov.

                            "I might've believed it at some point. It was one version popular
                            during perestroika. But all sources pretty much agree on the unit he
                            was in, and it wasn't a penal company.

                            What might've pointed to him being in a penal company was the fact that
                            he got into the army after serving time in a labor colony (some sources
                            mention it, but I don't know for sure). He is also mentioned by name
                            in one NKVD report as an example of a prisoner sent to the front. Such
                            prisoners were usually sent to penal companies. But then, other
                            sources say he already served out his sentence by the time he was
                            sentenced. So I don't really know anything. Basically, this story is
                            so ****ing confused, that even the date of his death is uncertain.

                            Oh, and it turns out his real name was Shakirian Mukhamedianov. So
                            there. Don't ask me if it's true or not."

                            I'll believe either or, I don't have a biased against or for Matrosov, just want to know the truth about him.
                            Go on www.ya.ru.

                            Then type Александр Матросов.

                            And you will find a lot of different versions (in Russian) about
                            Matrosov. And very often the versions contradict one another. But you have to mention that anyone is able to place any rubbish in Internet.

                            I liked this source:
                            http://www.volgaflot.com/index.phtml...=0608(04).html

                            >Shakirian Mukhamedianov - It is only one version which is not provided by proofs.

                            I do not want to spend time for making a special investigation about Matrosov.

                            In any case, Matrosov is a symbol now. It is not important what was his name, where and when he did his feat. He is a history.

                            I only explained what Vysotskiy meant in his song. He didn't sing about Matrosov. Vysotskiy singed about a soldier who made the same feat which Matrosov made.

                            In USSR it was possible to say: "He repeated Alexander Matrosov's feat" and everyone understood what it meant.
                            Last edited by Andrey; 07 Jun 05, 03:10.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Kunikov
                              I was born in Chernovtsy in Ukraine, I came to the US when I was 6. I haven't been back yet, but I am going back on June 14th to visit Moscow and St. Petersburg. I don't read much in terms of Russian newspapers.
                              To the point, as I know Chernovtsy is Moldavia and not the Ukraine - .

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Andrey
                                To the point, as I know Chernovtsy is Moldavia and not the Ukraine - .
                                No, Chernovtsy was and is in Ukraine, before Stalin took over Bessarabia and Bukovina it was part of Romania, but ever since it has been part of Ukraine.
                                "This isn't Paris, you will not get through here with a Marching Parade!" Defenders of Stalingrad
                                "Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out... and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel.... And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man" - with his mouth". Mark Twain
                                "It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.” Voltaire

                                Comment

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